Industry pushes sugary products, while obfuscating the health hazards • Hacker News Board

Re: Industry pushes sugary products, while obfuscating the health hazards

#41

Post by NikolaeVarius » Thu, Dec 27, 2018, 12:11 AM UTC

skilled wrote: post #25

The crazy part is that a lot of people would go absolutely insane if their sugar was to be cut off all of a sudden. That's the one thing we don't want to hear. And in doing so, pretend that everything is great. The same goes for canned and long shelf-life food. If you eat a healthy diet then getting naturally occuring sugars is not a problem. And I understand the argument that eating 'healthy' might not be possible f…

So, your argument is that on a healthy diet, you can eat whatever you want. Got it.

And the fallacy that organic food = healthy is absolutely mind boggling to me. Study after study has shown that there is minimal difference in the nutritional quality of "organic" vs "non-organic" foods. It doesn't matter, and also the perceived benefit to the environment is nil.

And whats wrong with canned and long shelf-life food? Are you against vegetables being kept for long periods of time without refrigeration and maintaining 99% of their nutritional content? Ditto for Jams and Honey which are both long shelf-life food due to their extreme abundance of "natural" sugar.

Re: Industry pushes sugary products, while obfuscating the health hazards

#42

Post by paganel » Thu, Dec 27, 2018, 12:12 AM UTC

snovv_crash wrote: post #24

paganel wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glad to hear, that's a plus for me for German foods then. It was actually the French-speaking part of Switzerland, the Coop stores (which is strange because otherwise they sell great cheese). What's even worse is that after two or three days I was getting accustomed to that sweetish yogurt and I was starting to think that that was its natural taste.

I'm sure you can get natural yoghurt from Coop. Maybe they just use a different culture from what you are used to.

Like I said, after a couple of days even to me it started tasting “normal”, but at first it certainly tasted more sweet compared to what I can usually purchase in my country. Different to what I was accustomed, yes, but also more sweet. For comparison I never had the same issue while buying yogurts from Greece or ayran from Turkey. They also tasted different to what I was accustomed but not sweeter.

Re: Industry pushes sugary products, while obfuscating the health hazards

#43

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 27, 2018, 12:13 AM UTC

Puer wrote: post #36

oblib wrote: post #27

Sugar, all by itself is bad (awful bad), but when you add "Red 40" to the mix children go into instant hyperactive-overdrive. They start bouncing off the walls and you might as well be feeding them crack cocaine. I spent a total of 24 days watching our grandkids this year and everyone of them was a battle over what they'd eat. I could not get the oldest (11 years old now) to take a single bite of real food during the…

That sounds like poor parenting more than anything else. Also, the "sugar -> hyperactive ADHD kids!" thing is a myth.

[deleted]

Re: Industry pushes sugary products, while obfuscating the health hazards

#44

Post by solveit » Thu, Dec 27, 2018, 12:14 AM UTC

The article, while making copious allusions to damning research, is light on actual damning research and heavy on rhetoric. The linked website (http://sugarscience.ucsf.edu) is also full of references to studies that are suggestive but nothing conclusive.

What's really worrying is the constant refrain that they just "knew" something had to be wrong. Doesn't exactly inspire confidence in their research. They then keep following up with references to diabetes, as if diabetes is obviously a sugar consumption problem, but I understand that that's not the case (https://www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-to-diabetes/enjoy-food/eat...).

All in all, with references to research that is weaker than they suggest, fearmongering rhetoric, and pushing a narrative of Big Sugar stifling honest, brave scientists, this article is indistinguishable to a layman (me) from an antivaxxer screed.

And honestly? The comments here are also indistinguishable from comments on an antivax website.

Re: Industry pushes sugary products, while obfuscating the health hazards

#45

Post by nradov » Thu, Dec 27, 2018, 12:14 AM UTC

skilled wrote: post #25

The crazy part is that a lot of people would go absolutely insane if their sugar was to be cut off all of a sudden. That's the one thing we don't want to hear. And in doing so, pretend that everything is great. The same goes for canned and long shelf-life food. If you eat a healthy diet then getting naturally occuring sugars is not a problem. And I understand the argument that eating 'healthy' might not be possible f…

In general organic food isn't healthier. Healthy foods like potatoes, rice, beans, apples, chicken, and canned vegetables are cheaply available almost everywhere.

Re: Industry pushes sugary products, while obfuscating the health hazards

#46

Post by gnulinux » Thu, Dec 27, 2018, 12:16 AM UTC

cheald wrote: post #26

gnulinux wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a more important point that is always missed in free market debates. You need not only perfect information, but also unlimited computation power and skill to compute necessary information. If you can get a CSV file of global potato and onion producers with transportation cost, but you have no means of solving this TSP problem, you will not make an optimal decision. In particular, relevant to this thre…

This is generally the argument against command economies, in _favor_ of market economies. It's formally referred to as the Economic Calculation Problem.

I wasn't making a point against/in favor of free market nor was I suggesting this was a hidden factor I just unraveled. I just don't see this discussed in free market debates, here or in reddit but I think this is a very practical problem for some markets. I personally try to take as much rational decisions as possible and one of the limiting factors for me is knowing good enough algorithms to efficiently compute rational decisions. Of course, we don't have perfect information, so that's a problem too.

EDIT: I must also admit that I know absolutely nothing about economics. I'm a regular software engineer.

Re: Industry pushes sugary products, while obfuscating the health hazards

#47

Post by tyfon » Thu, Dec 27, 2018, 12:17 AM UTC

My father in-law is in hospital right now with gallstones and various other infections due to this. He had severe stomach pain and went to the hospital.

Tomorrow he'll be transported to another hospital via helicopter and airplane for operation.

It's not too serious when treated but the doctors say it's due to high sugar intake.

Personally I prefer natural sugar over the artificial stuff but, as with everything else, moderation is key.

Re: Industry pushes sugary products, while obfuscating the health hazards

#48

Post by nradov » Thu, Dec 27, 2018, 12:18 AM UTC

oblib wrote: post #27

Sugar, all by itself is bad (awful bad), but when you add "Red 40" to the mix children go into instant hyperactive-overdrive. They start bouncing off the walls and you might as well be feeding them crack cocaine. I spent a total of 24 days watching our grandkids this year and everyone of them was a battle over what they'd eat. I could not get the oldest (11 years old now) to take a single bite of real food during the…

Red 40 has been extensively studied: "the available scientific evidence does not substantiate a link between the color additives and behavioral effects".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allura_Red_AC

Maybe something else is going on with your grandchildren?

Re: Industry pushes sugary products, while obfuscating the health hazards

#49

Post by BeetleB » Thu, Dec 27, 2018, 12:22 AM UTC

paganel wrote: post #13

maxxxxx wrote: post #5

It's mind boggling how much sugar is in everything. Just looked at my girlfriend's Starbucks Chai tea container. 100g sugar! She would be better off drinking a bottle of Coke. And Starbucks are supposed to be good guys . On a related note: how do they get that much sugar into these drinks? If I made a liter of Chai tea and poured 100g sugar into it I don't think it would be drinkable.

> It's mind boggling how much sugar is in everything I remember traveling to Western Europe a couple of years ago (I live further East) and trying to buy plain yogurt from a supermarket, I mean yogurt which should have tasted as close as possible to the one my peasant grandma used to make. It was close to impossible to find such a product, as even the yogurt labeled as "plain" had a sweetish taste, you could definite…

Very easy to find plain yogurt in the US without sugar.

A bit harder if you don't want it to contain gelatin or pectin.

Of course, varies from state to state.

Search for Nancy's yogurt in your area. Easily available in the Western US in any grocery store. In the Midwest I found it only in health food stores.

Re: Industry pushes sugary products, while obfuscating the health hazards

#50

Post by skilled » Thu, Dec 27, 2018, 12:22 AM UTC

NikolaeVarius wrote: post #41

skilled wrote: post #25

The crazy part is that a lot of people would go absolutely insane if their sugar was to be cut off all of a sudden. That's the one thing we don't want to hear. And in doing so, pretend that everything is great. The same goes for canned and long shelf-life food. If you eat a healthy diet then getting naturally occuring sugars is not a problem. And I understand the argument that eating 'healthy' might not be possible f…

So, your argument is that on a healthy diet, you can eat whatever you want. Got it. And the fallacy that organic food = healthy is absolutely mind boggling to me. Study after study has shown that there is minimal difference in the nutritional quality of "organic" vs "non-organic" foods. It doesn't matter, and also the perceived benefit to the environment is nil. And whats wrong with canned and long shelf-life food? A…

The funny thing is that I have no reason to talk out of my butt. I am just expressing my personal experience with food.

My idea of a healthy diet is fruit, seeds, nuts, and occasional grains / legumes. The 'Steve Jobs' diet if you will.

It's honestly surprising to see how much lighter and energetic you become once you drop meat and huge blocks (carbs) of crap that makes you feel like you ate something worthwhile.