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As Bitcoin Sinks, Industry Startups Are Forced to Cut Back

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Re: As Bitcoin Sinks, Industry Startups Are Forced to Cut Back

#221

Post by Joe-Z »

Nasrudith wrote: post #214
cageface wrote: post #206

2018 is the year that we learned that complex social problems can not be solved by technology. From the political weaponization of social media to the collapse of the ICO market we've seen that the techno-utopian dream is largely just that, a dream. Social change takes hard work and the slow building of consensus, not just clever code. We have seen, however, that we can do a lot of damage to the social fabric with po…

I think that the biggest issue is frankly bullshit. Bullshit in the sense of complete lack of sensitivity to the truth so long as it leads to the outcome they want. Technology isn't at fault here but bullshit is on so many levels it isn't funny. The stupid internet rumors and social media manipulation? Bullshit because they want to influence people - they don't care if it is true or not. Company valuations? They don'…

Indeed. I found GP's comment quite insightful until it suddenly called for regulation on the internet.

Why would that change anything when we just established that not the technology but learned behaviours are the problem?

Maybe 2018 was the year that showed us that we finally need to come to terms with the fact that - yes - there are enough resources for everybody and the people who control the bulk of them still want to treat you as a dumb cog in a machine and we need to cut through all the layers of bullshit they are throwing at us.

Re: As Bitcoin Sinks, Industry Startups Are Forced to Cut Back

#222

Post by notahacker »

mdpopescu wrote: post #146
superkuh wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you haven't seen the need for an apolitical currency yet you probably never will. But maybe you're just all viewing this from the perspective of traditional speculators and haven't even considered it?

It's fascinating how strongly we believe that now == how things should be. Humans have been using gold as a currency for thousands of years, and yet nowadays everyone seems to believe that nothing but state-backed paper can work as such - and anyone who wants (as you said) an apolitical currency is just weird.

There's a big difference between thinking an apolitical currency might be a nice thing and thinking current crypto offerings are a viable example of one.

Re: As Bitcoin Sinks, Industry Startups Are Forced to Cut Back

#223

Post by cat199 »

cageface wrote: post #206

2018 is the year that we learned that complex social problems can not be solved by technology. From the political weaponization of social media to the collapse of the ICO market we've seen that the techno-utopian dream is largely just that, a dream. Social change takes hard work and the slow building of consensus, not just clever code. We have seen, however, that we can do a lot of damage to the social fabric with po…

> 2018 is the year that we learned that complex social problems can not be solved by technology.

speak for yourself. not a new realization for at least some.

Re: As Bitcoin Sinks, Industry Startups Are Forced to Cut Back

#224

Post by way2983 »

CydeWeys wrote: post #30
minimaxir wrote: post #6

At what price will the Bitcoin death spiral occur? (i.e. when it costs more to produce/handle Bitcoin than the revenue generated, so best move is to just exit the crypto industry).

As others have pointed out, the difficulty adjusts both up and down depending on the total work being done by the network, so no death cycle is possible. Additionally, even when there are rapid drops in value (and thus mining), people still want to transact Bitcoin, so transaction fees go up and become a significant percentage of the overall value of a new block, thus compensating miners for the reduced value of the…

>As others have pointed out, the difficulty adjusts both up and down depending on the total work being done by the network, so no death cycle is possible.

It's true that the difficulty adjusts both up and down, however it does so over 2016 block intervals. If a sufficiently fast and large drop in value/hashrate occurs, the chain could well 'death spiral'. The drop simply has to occur within the adjustment interval (2016 blocks- or 14 days).

That said, recovering from a death spiral is as simple as a new Bitcoin Core release that hard-forks the difficulty to a new, workable level, so the fatalistic view of death spirals is still wrong.

Re: As Bitcoin Sinks, Industry Startups Are Forced to Cut Back

#225

Post by cageface »

minimaxir wrote: post #6

At what price will the Bitcoin death spiral occur? (i.e. when it costs more to produce/handle Bitcoin than the revenue generated, so best move is to just exit the crypto industry).

I think the problem is that BTC has been through a very public boom and bust cycle so the public at large is now very wary and a lot of new regulations are coming in. Blockchain needs to start solving some actual man in the street kind of problems soon if it's going to retain any mindshare.

Re: As Bitcoin Sinks, Industry Startups Are Forced to Cut Back

#226

Post by mindfulplay »

zik wrote: post #198
mindfulplay wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are conflating greed with innovation. We did not rally optimism and childlike curiosoty from the general public for HTTP or TCP/IP. You are shilling based on the popular Bitcoin playbook of Quotes and Comments. If it's really about the technology then people shouldn't care about the USD value of this crapshitcoins era... But no you folks not only took on the technologically inclined people but dragged the unaware…

Not everyone's who's interested in decentralized trustless payment technology is a "shill". You're dismissing innovation and tarring it with greed.

I did intentionally want this to be inflammatory.

ICOs,crapcoins have took money from the general public without any regulation and funneled into shady, dodgy ventures. So yes of course my comments come out to be inflammatory.

Re: As Bitcoin Sinks, Industry Startups Are Forced to Cut Back

#227

Post by Nursie »

jMyles wrote: post #178
Nursie wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people don't care about decentralised money. Stop the on/off ramps they currently use for speculation and the vast majority will stop speculating, as they were only in it for the get-rich-quick factor.

Again, I don't think that making it illegal to transact in crypto will have the effect of "stop[ping] the on/off ramps" - I think the opposite is far more likely.

So you think that if, say, coinbase and others are made to stop accepting deposits, Joe and Jane Retail-Investor are going to seek illegal methods to continue 'investing'?

I am think you overestimate people's interest, and underestimate just how much of a get-rich-quick bubble this has been.

Re: As Bitcoin Sinks, Industry Startups Are Forced to Cut Back

#228

Post by cageface »

Joe-Z wrote: post #221
Nasrudith wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that the biggest issue is frankly bullshit. Bullshit in the sense of complete lack of sensitivity to the truth so long as it leads to the outcome they want. Technology isn't at fault here but bullshit is on so many levels it isn't funny. The stupid internet rumors and social media manipulation? Bullshit because they want to influence people - they don't care if it is true or not. Company valuations? They don'…

Indeed. I found GP's comment quite insightful until it suddenly called for regulation on the internet. Why would that change anything when we just established that not the technology but learned behaviours are the problem? Maybe 2018 was the year that showed us that we finally need to come to terms with the fact that - yes - there are enough resources for everybody and the people who control the bulk of them still wa…

To be clear - I'd prefer not to see a new wave of regulation online. I'd much rather see the tech industry clean up its own house and fix its own problems. But since the big companies still seem to be dragging their feet on this after all that's happened I'm pretty sure we're about to get dragged kicking and screaming into the sausage factory that is government regulation.

Re: As Bitcoin Sinks, Industry Startups Are Forced to Cut Back

#229

Post by lmpostor »

twblalock wrote: post #141
jMyles wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahh, yes, in that sense you're right. But I'm not sure that it's a meaningful standard. We've seen "the bubble" being poked sharply from the inside with relative trivialities like cryptokitties. We've also seen the more blunt effect of undermining prohibition policies - access to a wide variety of (psychoactive and other) forbidden medicines has been difficult to achieve since the garden of eden; this seems like a br…

How much longer are you personally willing to wait for blockchain tech to succeed before you would give up on it?

5 years seems reasonable, but I would have to reevaluate particularly based on certain projects I am following

Re: As Bitcoin Sinks, Industry Startups Are Forced to Cut Back

#230

Post by madeofpalk »

Joe-Z wrote: post #221
Nasrudith wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that the biggest issue is frankly bullshit. Bullshit in the sense of complete lack of sensitivity to the truth so long as it leads to the outcome they want. Technology isn't at fault here but bullshit is on so many levels it isn't funny. The stupid internet rumors and social media manipulation? Bullshit because they want to influence people - they don't care if it is true or not. Company valuations? They don'…

Indeed. I found GP's comment quite insightful until it suddenly called for regulation on the internet. Why would that change anything when we just established that not the technology but learned behaviours are the problem? Maybe 2018 was the year that showed us that we finally need to come to terms with the fact that - yes - there are enough resources for everybody and the people who control the bulk of them still wa…

> but learned behaviours are the problem?

Regulation can codify those bad 'learned behaviours' into illegal practices, no?

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