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As Bitcoin Sinks, Industry Startups Are Forced to Cut Back

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Re: As Bitcoin Sinks, Industry Startups Are Forced to Cut Back

#211

Post by bmer »

jMyles wrote: post #196
mindfulplay wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please at least add a HUGE disclaimer that all the NuCoin things are your own products and not some childlike curiosity. It's important that people understand that because HN doesn't allow ads without disclaimers.

I am unable to edit my comment at this time, but reading it, I think it's very, very obvious from my language ("If I am permitted to send one of my recent talks[0] back with this message about our progress at NuCypher...") that I work at NuCypher. It's not like I mentioned it in passing; I mentioned it specifically to talk about my own experience. And what are "NuCoin things"? What are you talking about? Do you even…

> If you have specific suggestions about how to be more responsible than we have, please offer them and stop with the melodrama.

HTTP and TCP/IP do not provoke "child like" wonder and curiosity, because they can be understood by everyone. In other words, they provoke a more mature sense of wonder: one that is backed by a fundamental grasping of the technology, which means people also understand the challenges associated with the tech. The fun is in overcoming the challenge.

With shitcoin technobabble: little to no effort is made to explain the underlying tech with useful analogies (often times, because there isn't really any underlying tech, or because the tech is actually only going to benefit a small proportion of "users"). The obfuscation of the system is precisely what allows technobabble to "evoke a sense of child like curiosity", rather than a proper understanding.

This is an old and common tactic: most "financial instruments" are similarly obfuscated. You're not a newcomer trying to do well, but rather the same old salesman, pitching a new naturopathic solution.

Re: As Bitcoin Sinks, Industry Startups Are Forced to Cut Back

#212

Post by chii »

krrrh wrote: post #87
DenisM wrote: post #73

The most remarkable thing about BTC is diffusion of responsibility. If it was issued and marketed by a single entity the participants would be in hot water by now for violating the Securities and Exchange laws. However here we had one non-affiliated group of bigger miners issuing the coins and another group of volunteer enthusiasts hyping them up. Since the second group was not hired by the first, the first group can…

Preston Byrne pointed out since there is no pyramid, this can’t be called a Ponzi scheme. It deserves a new name, the “Nakamoto scheme”: https://prestonbyrne.com/2017/12/08/bitcoin_ponzi/

why not call it a bubble, just like everything else like it that has come before in history?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania

Re: As Bitcoin Sinks, Industry Startups Are Forced to Cut Back

#213

Post by mindfulplay »

jMyles wrote: post #196
mindfulplay wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please at least add a HUGE disclaimer that all the NuCoin things are your own products and not some childlike curiosity. It's important that people understand that because HN doesn't allow ads without disclaimers.

I am unable to edit my comment at this time, but reading it, I think it's very, very obvious from my language ("If I am permitted to send one of my recent talks[0] back with this message about our progress at NuCypher...") that I work at NuCypher. It's not like I mentioned it in passing; I mentioned it specifically to talk about my own experience. And what are "NuCoin things"? What are you talking about? Do you even…

The NuCypher has the Hallmark of a marketing website for ICOs and perfect whitepapers and awesome 'team' photos and other stuff that should raise a million red flags. I have seen this game a million times with so many ICOs with 'super nice squeaky clean websites' before.

I am sure there is _some_ technology hidden there. But to me it just screams money money money. Not technology technology technology. Have seen this game play a million times.

Really really would love to have SEC scrutinize all these crapshoot ICOs ( not accusing you). Have seen so much money swindling with fake whitepapers and promise of Alice and Bob in wonderland security whitepapers. Yours is probably legit but I have no idea. SEC should weigh in.

Alice wants to decrypt the rabbit hole. Bob wants to sell ICOs. Oh my

Re: As Bitcoin Sinks, Industry Startups Are Forced to Cut Back

#214

Post by Nasrudith »

cageface wrote: post #206

2018 is the year that we learned that complex social problems can not be solved by technology. From the political weaponization of social media to the collapse of the ICO market we've seen that the techno-utopian dream is largely just that, a dream. Social change takes hard work and the slow building of consensus, not just clever code. We have seen, however, that we can do a lot of damage to the social fabric with po…

I think that the biggest issue is frankly bullshit. Bullshit in the sense of complete lack of sensitivity to the truth so long as it leads to the outcome they want. Technology isn't at fault here but bullshit is on so many levels it isn't funny.

The stupid internet rumors and social media manipulation? Bullshit because they want to influence people - they don't care if it is true or not. Company valuations? They don't care if it is productive or useful - they just want it to make money which leads to the new Tulip craze. Security theater and claims that they need to spy on everything? Bullshit to justify their positions and cover their asses. It isn't a technology - it is the social black art old as dirt that keeps being used. It causes problems everywhere because it exists on a nearly fractal level.

We see plenty of people blaming tech companies for their problems and calling for regulations? Do they care if it is true or have any idea for specific regulations in mind? And the few that are trotted out turn out to be trivially unworkable or contrary to the given purpose on so many levels like encryption bans. Because it is all bullshit - what they want is to protect their own vested interests and they don't want the truth in the same building of a skyscrapper, much less the same room because they will lose in a discussion of facts.

I would be very skeptical of anyone who claims that we need regulation on the internet - because so far all of the pushers are shoveling more bullshit.

Re: As Bitcoin Sinks, Industry Startups Are Forced to Cut Back

#215

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

chii wrote: post #212
krrrh wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Preston Byrne pointed out since there is no pyramid, this can’t be called a Ponzi scheme. It deserves a new name, the “Nakamoto scheme”: https://prestonbyrne.com/2017/12/08/bitcoin_ponzi/

why not call it a bubble, just like everything else like it that has come before in history? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania

Maybe bubble implies that the asset or resource has some actual value but the value was being over inflated.

Do cryptos have any real value?

Re: As Bitcoin Sinks, Industry Startups Are Forced to Cut Back

#217

Post by rblion »

DenisM wrote: post #73

The most remarkable thing about BTC is diffusion of responsibility. If it was issued and marketed by a single entity the participants would be in hot water by now for violating the Securities and Exchange laws. However here we had one non-affiliated group of bigger miners issuing the coins and another group of volunteer enthusiasts hyping them up. Since the second group was not hired by the first, the first group can…

This articulates the situation perfectly. A clear lack of checks and balances.

Re: As Bitcoin Sinks, Industry Startups Are Forced to Cut Back

#218

Post by vertex-four »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #215
chii wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why not call it a bubble, just like everything else like it that has come before in history? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania

Maybe bubble implies that the asset or resource has some actual value but the value was being over inflated. Do cryptos have any real value?

Moving money around without an authority to stop you does have value. The question is whether that value is very high at all - in current society, probably not, and in a futuristic society I’d hope we’d develop trust mechanisms that don’t require the expense of total global order to move money/tokens/whatever around.

Re: As Bitcoin Sinks, Industry Startups Are Forced to Cut Back

#219

Post by cageface »

Nasrudith wrote: post #214
cageface wrote: post #206

2018 is the year that we learned that complex social problems can not be solved by technology. From the political weaponization of social media to the collapse of the ICO market we've seen that the techno-utopian dream is largely just that, a dream. Social change takes hard work and the slow building of consensus, not just clever code. We have seen, however, that we can do a lot of damage to the social fabric with po…

I think that the biggest issue is frankly bullshit. Bullshit in the sense of complete lack of sensitivity to the truth so long as it leads to the outcome they want. Technology isn't at fault here but bullshit is on so many levels it isn't funny. The stupid internet rumors and social media manipulation? Bullshit because they want to influence people - they don't care if it is true or not. Company valuations? They don'…

We're going to see a lot of bullshit regulation on the internet and a lot of opportunists taking advantage of the current chaos to push their own agenda. Unfortunately we handed them the weapons they need to push these arguments by building toxic (or at least very naive) platforms like Facebook and Bitcoin. It's a shame really but the tech community has itself to blame for a lot of this.

The power struggles that have gone on in human societies for our entire existence are now starting to play out online. We should have seen this coming.

Re: As Bitcoin Sinks, Industry Startups Are Forced to Cut Back

#220

Post by Nasrudith »

jklepatch wrote: post #96

What puzzled me is how comes blockchain startups did not sell their crypto for fiat just after their ICOs. I recommended this to several of my blockchain customers but none of them listened. I dont know if that was motivated by greed or something else. According to Game theory there is no benefit in not selling the crypto for fiat: if you raise lets say 10million during an ico (typical amount raised 6m ago), there is…

Cynically the time to sell it is after the IPO for even larger gains with less responsibility. Since if you are behind a ICO and then start to sell yourself it is a clear pump and dump. After a company becomes big enough for an Initial Public Offering however it allows for a clean getaway without liability. You often notice start ups selling out after the growth starts to decline whether they are right or wrong about it - which at least lends some honesty to the transaction.

If it goes bigger after the IPO they either missed out or gave it to more capable hands. If it goes kaput they either got out just in time or it got ran into the ground by the new guys.

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