There were several stories a few months ago about how China’s Silk Road projects were being given to countries they couldn’t pay them back. I guess it’s true. Look for more of this.
rich loan to poor to get richer. this is new to you? you think china is the first or the last to do this? IMF is doing this wherever they can. the west is annoyed china is doing this too so they push all these "amg china is evil" articles to stir the pot and try to turn the locals against chinese.
Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko
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Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
Taking vindictive actions against authoritarian regimes never goes out of style.
Ah, of course, the U.S. is the leader of standing up for the little guy. The entire West has taken advantage out of African nations but God forbid someone else tries to do that now.
> The entire West has taken advantage out of African nations but God forbid someone else tries to do that now.
As an American citizen, yes. We're not perfect by any means, but we're no authoritarian regime such that China has.
Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko
#73I know nothing about it, but comments to that article (in Google Cache) seems to view the article as alarmist: for example, say that the grace period is until 2023, so we are talking years, not weeks before something happens. No idea if it is true or not, more info/references would be great. Can someone give more insight?
I'm an African myself, but while Chinese model is different from the aid model we are familiar with, it's helping solve so many problems that we had no alternatives for. China is willing to come in with loans without political strings attached. Yes, there are collaterals but Africa has its own negotiators too, and we know the deal we get is much better than any other country or institution would be willing to give.
I truly wish you guys the best. I'm all for any kind of new approach to economic development.
I would caution your use of "without political strings attached"
Trust me, anything at that scale? It has political strings attached. What concerns me -- and why I commented -- is the perception that there isn't.
Large groups of people working together always do things for political reasons. Not altruism, morals, or some other attribute an individual might have. Large groups of people working together are not just some huge version of a person.
I don't know the details here, and I think even if I did a lot of it is going to have to shake out over the next few years anyway. Best of luck! I sure hope this doesn't end up screwing over folks in Africa yet again under the guise (and perhaps honest mission) of helping them.
By the way, the same goes for folks who oppose such efforts. Groups like spinning things as if they are all of one mind, but these are complex decisions with many groups and levels of politics to consider, not good guys versus bad guys. That kind of stuff is just the pablum they sell to the folks back home.
Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
An acquaintance travels around Africa relatively frequently and his observations seem to be in line with the OP article sentiment. From China’s perspective it makes a lot of sense to buy up Africa, it’s a resource rich continent and was essentially given up by the west.
I grew up in Africa myself. And yes, China is getting more involved in more projects than it used to but it's only because their terms are more favorable than our darling western powers'. African countries are not some teenager girl who is being duped into doing something they don't see themselves.
Your inappropriate metaphor; no one else's.
Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko
#75There were several stories a few months ago about how China’s Silk Road projects were being given to countries they couldn’t pay them back. I guess it’s true. Look for more of this.
rich loan to poor to get richer. this is new to you? you think china is the first or the last to do this? IMF is doing this wherever they can. the west is annoyed china is doing this too so they push all these "amg china is evil" articles to stir the pot and try to turn the locals against chinese.
No one takes money from the IMF unless they are so screwed that they have no other options. The reason they have no one willing to lend to them is that their government has enacted policies that destroyed their economy and the IMF requires concrete changes to get them back on the right track.
The alternative to taking an IMF loan is so bad (collapse of country) that they take it. It isn’t the IMF’s fault, it’s what happens when those in power loot their country via corruption, huge bloated public sectors, unsustainable pensions, crony capitalism, etc.
Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko
#76Could the USA or an european nation offer to pay the loan in exchange for taking over the port? Itd be cool to swoop in on this deal.
Unironic exceptionalism at display right here.
Colonialism is only bad if it's not Europe/US doing it. /s
Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko
#77West African American here (Ghanaian - American). This article actually isn't true, while the Kenyan Chinese pact that led to the construction of the Nairobi - Mombasa Port does have clauses related to penalties around lack of payment, there has been no actual announcement or any signs of China declaring possession of the Mombasa Port. In fact, the big issue in Mombasa right now is actually revolving around a Kenyan…
>Speaking furthermore, I do find it highly concerning just how much of an echo chamber this place is in regards to this notion of "Chinese colonialism" and Chinese "debt - traps".
Western media should not be trusted to report accurately about foreign non-western countries. They almost never do.
Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko
#78There were several stories a few months ago about how China’s Silk Road projects were being given to countries they couldn’t pay them back. I guess it’s true. Look for more of this.
rich loan to poor to get richer. this is new to you? you think china is the first or the last to do this? IMF is doing this wherever they can. the west is annoyed china is doing this too so they push all these "amg china is evil" articles to stir the pot and try to turn the locals against chinese.
I am not sure why your comment was downvoted. I thought it's well known how the IMF ruins countries and I feel the modus operandi of the IMF isn't that much different from perhaps what China is doing right now. Except, now it's not the Western world / the US (through the IMF) that indirectly is pulling the strings anymore.
I feel the Western world is not in a position to judge China in this while the IMF is preventing third world countries from developing through its policies in much the same way.
Read also this: http://www.globalissues.org/article/3/structural-adjustment-...
Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko
#79Before we throw about the term "Imperialism", let's remember what kinds of things the European powers did that are rightly considered part of it: - Violently forcing "trade" to happen, often under an "East India Company". You can have cannon balls or opium. - Forcing the local administration to learn the language and legal system of the imperial power. Why do they speak English in Kenya? - Suppressing local rule. How…
This just feels like whataboutism, no one denies that the European imperialism was bad.
It is definitely not whataboutism. Here's a definition for you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
I'm not creating a false moral equivalence between European Imperialism and China, I'm refuting it.
Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
rich loan to poor to get richer. this is new to you? you think china is the first or the last to do this? IMF is doing this wherever they can. the west is annoyed china is doing this too so they push all these "amg china is evil" articles to stir the pot and try to turn the locals against chinese.
I'm not sure comparing China with the IMF will help your case; at least in my Western European country, the IMF is itself considered evil by many.
American's are largely unaware of the IMF and World Bank. It's not something that is mentioned in any huge way. I'd be surprised if more than 15% of the country could give a broad definition of each organization.