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Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

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61–70 of 266 posts

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#61

Before we throw about the term "Imperialism", let's remember what kinds of things the European powers did that are rightly considered part of it: - Violently forcing "trade" to happen, often under an "East India Company". You can have cannon balls or opium. - Forcing the local administration to learn the language and legal system of the imperial power. Why do they speak English in Kenya? - Suppressing local rule. How…

>To compare current China with something like the British Empire is not very reasonable.

This is a strawman from PRC apologists. The article doesn't do that at all.

Also, the British doing bad things in the past is no excuse for governments doing things like this today.

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Globalism is not very popular in the West right now.

Taking vindictive actions against authoritarian regimes never goes out of style.

Ah, of course, the U.S. is the leader of standing up for the little guy.

The entire West has taken advantage out of African nations but God forbid someone else tries to do that now.

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#63
West African American here (Ghanaian - American). This article actually isn't true, while the Kenyan Chinese pact that led to the construction of the Nairobi - Mombasa Port does have clauses related to penalties around lack of payment, there has been no actual announcement or any signs of China declaring possession of the Mombasa Port. In fact, the big issue in Mombasa right now is actually revolving around a Kenyan state company taking over one of the terminals, a situation that doesn't delight the workers due to the late payment periods of said state company.

Speaking furthermore, I do find it highly concerning just how much of an echo chamber this place is in regards to this notion of "Chinese colonialism" and Chinese "debt - traps". Most African countries still owe far more to the IMF/World Bank than they due to China. Of the 54 African countries, only four are in severe debt to the Chinese (Ethiopia, Kenya, Djibouti, Zambia), and of those four countries China has gone the distance in terms of reviving moribund national rail systems and helping to set up industrial zones, which is in part why East Africa boasts the highest growth rates on the continent.

Africa is a vast continent with booming populations. They're also counties with deeply huge infrastructure needs. Ghana alone while one of the richer African countries is in desperate need of new roads, power plants (blackout issues), hospitals (we recently passed a universal healthcare law), and education(we recently launched universal free senior high school education). The funding to launch these countries into elevated statehood isn't going to come from the West. The city Of New York's pension fund isn't going to be investing likely in the KSE (Kenyan Stock Exchange).

So are there issues with Chinese engagement? Yes. Will some countries make a botch of it? Yes. But are other countries seizing the opportunity and using it to drive a higher standard of life? Yes. But in my opinion it is a far better arrangement than the European sponsored neocolonialism of the past. France in particular still operates a monetary zone that operates in 14 African countries in its former colonial obit, and we cannot forget the provocations against the Gaddafi regime earlier this decade which resulted in accelerating a migrant rush towards Western Europe. The Chinese stay out of African politics. and in historical terms have largely not interfered in the political processes of countries not in their "near abroad" to borrow a Russian political term.

Anyway those are my thoughts from someone who is African and has actually been to various countries in Africa.

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#64

Before we throw about the term "Imperialism", let's remember what kinds of things the European powers did that are rightly considered part of it: - Violently forcing "trade" to happen, often under an "East India Company". You can have cannon balls or opium. - Forcing the local administration to learn the language and legal system of the imperial power. Why do they speak English in Kenya? - Suppressing local rule. How…

Fair points, but we are in the 21st century, and we should expect a nicer world out there, with the UN, global free press, etc.

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#65

So this is Economic Hitmen 2.0. China watched and learned from what the US did in South America.

Sri Lanka : https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/world/asia/china-sri-lank...

Ecuador: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/24/world/americas/ecuador-ch...

Montenegro : https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-silkroad-europe-mon...

Pakistan: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pakistan-silkroad-railway...

and now Kenya

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so china taking over the port is bad but it's OK if USA does it because they will make it a freedom port?

Well, there would probably be less slave labor in the American port so I suppose so.

Yep, we all know it's not slave labor if you get prisoners to do it.

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#67

Could the USA or an european nation offer to pay the loan in exchange for taking over the port? Itd be cool to swoop in on this deal.

Greece should have thought of that:

  - Provide unfettered economic access to China for 20 years in exchange for having the country's debt paid by them.
  - Seed a few alarmist articles.
  - Wait until USA and EU go crazy over that and summarily agree on a debt write-off.

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#68

Could the USA or an european nation offer to pay the loan in exchange for taking over the port? Itd be cool to swoop in on this deal.

so china taking over the port is bad but it's OK if USA does it because they will make it a freedom port?

Not ok, just better.

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#69
post #51

Okay that's enough China bashing threads. On the positive side, China has in the past waived some debts of African countries, which don't get to top of HN. https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-xi-pledges-60-billion-to...

Well... https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-16/are-china-cheap-loans... ... not sure what 'bashing' you are talking about. This 'debt-trap diplomacy' is a real concern here in Australia.

Your article talks about the same issue as the one being discussed here. And my comment is to shed light onto this issue from the other side (debt issuer). Anything wrong with that?

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#70
post #42

I'd say it's worth it for Kenya, these are huge money-losing projects anyway,

China has two major projects to dam up the white nile and the blue nile upstream from Egypt and Sudan (who curreently use 90% of the Nile water) Ethiopia, and Kenya will take control of the Nile and the two countries that currently consume 90% of the Nile water will be starved into submission by their Chinese landlords through taxes and fees over water. China needs a port for their Navy so they can 'protect' their 'i…

> disrespect geographical boundaries that gave rise to the magnificent diversity on this planet.

You mean boundaries set by colonialism?

> The only loss that I mourn is the set of unique cultures and heritage of the many people inn Africa.

Again, what about the ones destroyed by decades of European colonialism? Many African countries speak French and English, ever morned the loss of their old tongues?

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