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Rome in Ruins

nytimes.com

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Re: Rome in Ruins

#11

Post by starpilot »

pram wrote: post #9
phyller wrote: post #6

This is how I see New York City. Living there I was so used to it, then I went to San Diego for a wedding, couldn't believe my eyes when I saw people walking around outside barefoot. Because everything was clean, why not? Everyone else wore sandals, I was the only one wearing shoes. I came back to NYC early Monday morning, rode the subway from JFK and had to walk through Times Square to get where I was going. Times S…

Yeah I was in NYC for the first time this year and I was impressed by the filth and general dilapidation. The subways are exceptionally dirty, and the stations/trains along the A line seemed to be in advanced decay. It’s nowhere as bad as Chicago though ;P

We've almost come full circle to back when people despised cities for being dirty and admired suburbs for being clean and affordable.

Re: Rome in Ruins

#12

Post by Lucadg »

Last time I was in Rome I had exactly the same impression. I even saw a discarded air conditioning unit at the feet of an ancient wall and it felt like I was in some dirty outskirts. I turned the corner and there was the Colossuem. Some Italian cities are very clean, others are even more dirty. It really depends and my guess is that after a while locals just stop seeing this. Clean and dirty is very subjective after all.

Re: Rome in Ruins

#13

Post by dwd »

briga wrote: post #2

It's not just Rome, I saw this in other Italian cities as well. The tourist areas are well-manicured, naturally, but the outskirts of many Italian cities are crumbling. Infrastructure is generally outdated and poorly designed, if not actively falling apart. The Italy of postcards and travel videos is a far cry from the Italy most Italians live in.

Visiting Venice many years ago, I found myself watching the ground rather than viewing the architecture due to the amount of dog shit on the streets. Obviously picking up after your dog is not in any way.

Re: Rome in Ruins

#15

Post by sloanedavids »

This description of Rome is how I see San Francisco. Formerly such a beautiful city, now all I see is garbage.

Recently my grandparents, who had never been outside of Germany before, visited me in San Francisco. As we left SFO by car and drove into the city, they eagerly took in the new sights. Everything they saw was new to them. After a long period of silence, they asked me, with a certain level of disbelief in their voice, “Why is there so much garbage on the streets in America?” I was stumped. Later, recounting their experience, they told me, “Driving into San Francisco felt like entering a land fill.” I will never forget those words.

Re: Rome in Ruins

#16

Post by michaelvoz »

sloanedavids wrote: post #15

This description of Rome is how I see San Francisco. Formerly such a beautiful city, now all I see is garbage. Recently my grandparents, who had never been outside of Germany before, visited me in San Francisco. As we left SFO by car and drove into the city, they eagerly took in the new sights. Everything they saw was new to them. After a long period of silence, they asked me, with a certain level of disbelief in the…

I went for a walk today, around my neighborhood in San Francisco. It was filthy. It was really rather sad. I've been here a long time but am now actively looking to leave. It breaks my heart seeing the beautiful city treated as an open air insane asylum and trash pit.

Re: Rome in Ruins

#17

Post by tatoalo »

armitron wrote: post #4
briga wrote: post #2

It's not just Rome, I saw this in other Italian cities as well. The tourist areas are well-manicured, naturally, but the outskirts of many Italian cities are crumbling. Infrastructure is generally outdated and poorly designed, if not actively falling apart. The Italy of postcards and travel videos is a far cry from the Italy most Italians live in.

Not to mention that Italy is fast on the way to becoming - if not already there - a mafia state. Reading Roberto Saviano's Gomorra opened my eyes as to how machine-like in its efficiency and hydra-like in its resiliency organized crime in Italy is with numerous sectors of the Italian state under the direct control of the mafia [1]. Combined with the economic outlook, this doesn't bode well for the future. [1] https:/…

Thinking of understanding the Italian situation from outside Italy and from reading Saviano is, in my opinion, complete BS. I like to form a personal opinion with my own mind reading real newspapers and getting through different prospectives and then, again, form my own. I wouldn’t take Saviano’s words as pure gold, I don’t like someone who gained and still gains from “writing” those kind of things.

Re: Rome in Ruins

#18

Post by sloanedavids »

sloanedavids wrote: post #15

This description of Rome is how I see San Francisco. Formerly such a beautiful city, now all I see is garbage. Recently my grandparents, who had never been outside of Germany before, visited me in San Francisco. As we left SFO by car and drove into the city, they eagerly took in the new sights. Everything they saw was new to them. After a long period of silence, they asked me, with a certain level of disbelief in the…

It gets worse. I had hoped to show off Silicon Valley to them as a place that is, well, pretty awesome. Having spent their entire lives in Germany though, they didn’t come away very impressed. When we took the Caltrain from SF down to San Jose they laughed, saying how the rickety slow, old train reminded them of the Soviet-era trains they had in East Germany in the 70’s. I couldn’t disagree.

Later, we took BART. Let’s just say they were so put off by the stench and the filthy condition of the train car, they refused to even sit down, held a handkerchief in front of their face, and couldn’t wait to get out.

Needless to say, they were unimpressed by their visit to the Bay Area.

Re: Rome in Ruins

#19

Post by runn1ng »

fyfy18 wrote: post #5
briga wrote: post #2

It's not just Rome, I saw this in other Italian cities as well. The tourist areas are well-manicured, naturally, but the outskirts of many Italian cities are crumbling. Infrastructure is generally outdated and poorly designed, if not actively falling apart. The Italy of postcards and travel videos is a far cry from the Italy most Italians live in.

Spain is in the same situation, although maybe not so pronounced yet. It's a stark contrast to post-Soviet countries, which are relatively well maintained and seeing trash dumped is practically unheard of.

Interesting, I am from Czech Republic, I was in Spain recently and I didn't feel like that at all. I have been mostly in Andalusia and the cities look great, Madrid looked fine as well.

Re: Rome in Ruins

#20

Post by personlurking »

briga wrote: post #2

It's not just Rome, I saw this in other Italian cities as well. The tourist areas are well-manicured, naturally, but the outskirts of many Italian cities are crumbling. Infrastructure is generally outdated and poorly designed, if not actively falling apart. The Italy of postcards and travel videos is a far cry from the Italy most Italians live in.

> The Italy of postcards and travel videos is a far cry from the Italy most Italians live

I recommend the 2011 documentary Italy: Love It or Leave It. It's about two guys who drive through Italy in an old Fiat 500 to decide if they should stay or move away. In the process they talk about modern Italy.

Trailer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nnnv3XS4Nj0

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