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China Cracks Down on Churches

nytimes.com

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Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#191

Post by Fricken »

partiallypro wrote: post #114
StevePerkins wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...Christianity, which by some estimates is China’s fastest-growing religion, promotes Western values and ideals like human rights that conflict with the aims of China’s authoritarian government This is the part that confuses me. I'm not sure what Christianity intrinsically promotes (ask 12 Christians and I suspect you'll receive 13 conflicting opinions). But practically speaking , governments and ruling classes ha…

You have a grave misreading of the history of Christianity. It was used as a control device when it was centrally controlled and delivered (like all religions)...the invention of the printing press changed all of that with the Reformation. Once the knowledge was spread through the people and open to interpretations, the general direction of Christianity (despite all the faults of modern movements) has trended towards…

In Chinese history it's a little different. The Taiping rebellion was a militant uprising against the ruling Manchus by a Christian Millenarian sect known as the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom, in the mid 19th century.

It was the bloodiest war of the 19th century, and the bloodiest civil war in history, with an estimated 20-70 million killed.

You don't have to agree with China's response to these chruches, but maybe you can understand why they get nervous when Christians start getting uppity.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Rebellion

Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#192

Post by upofadown »

Down at the bottom of the article:

>While sermons at state-sanctioned churches are often tightly scripted, independent churches boom with searing indictments of corrupt officials and rousing calls to protect the rights of the poor.

>Early Rain, which Mr. Wang founded in 2008, was among the most daring. Mr. Wang called Mr. Xi a sinner, held prayer sessions each year to mark the brutal crackdown on pro-democracy demonstrations around Tiananmen Square in Beijing in 1989, and organized a fund to support relatives of political prisoners in China.

So just good old fashioned suppression of political dissent. The fact that they were churches could be entirely irrelevant.

Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#193

Post by dang »

dahidahi1 wrote: post #37
nyolfen wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what is "borderline terrorism"? the churches in the article were targeted for criticizing corrupt officials, in china

Why is the church indulging in criticism? Who are they? What right do they have to do that? How do they know that the officials are corrupt? How do you know that is the only thing the church did, if they even did that? How do YOU know for a fact that the official was corrupt? Too many questions & you seem to be naive enough to take everything at face value. Again, why does the church interfere in such things? Isn't t…

Religious flamewar will get you banned here. Please do not post like this to HN again. The topic is provocative, yes; and that's a reason not to be provoked.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#194

Post by dang »

dahidahi1 wrote: post #19
saagarjha wrote: post #5

Regardless of your faith (or lack thereof), I hope you agree that this is pretty horrible from a freedom of expression perspective :/

So if I get your drift, someday you'll support the "freedom of expression" of terrorists? The church is known to indulge in borderline terrorism, just fyi. This is at least in the case of India. We suffer it every single day.

This comment and your others in this thread have broken the site guidelines badly. We ban accounts that do religious flamewar. Please don't post like this again.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Edit: looking further, since you have a history of abusing HN in this way, I've banned the account. Please don't create accounts to break the site guidelines with.

Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#195

Post by adictator »

saagarjha wrote: post #5

Regardless of your faith (or lack thereof), I hope you agree that this is pretty horrible from a freedom of expression perspective :/

You wrongly assume that, that is all the church is guilty of. Please widen your views a little bit. There is a pattern to be followed here. It's not like the church did not have ~2000 years to hone their skills at toppling bonafide governments that did not align with their views.

Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#196

Post by dang »

coliveira wrote: post #113
gammateam wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is horrendously inaccurate. Yes, if you're a part of a sect controlled by the Communist Party, you're ok. The idea that this is a viable alternative ... I'm beyond words. I didn't say or suggest it was a viable alternative. I literally wrote it was unfavorable. With that in mind, what is inaccurate about what I wrote?

Cristians are always thinking about persecution, even when they are there persecuting literally everyone who disagrees with their beliefs. Just consider the evangelicals in the US for a good example of how "inclusive" they are.

No religious flamewar on Hacker News, please.

We've had to warn you about this more than once before.

Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#197

Post by olcor »

rohit2412 wrote: post #180
olcor wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Islam and Christianity are just two sides of the same coin As an agnostic Indian (Hindu family), I’d prefer if you don’t color entire religions and people with a broad brush. As for Christian missionaries abusing laws and forcibly converting people, please cite sources. Religious and tribal dogma isn’t confined only to certain religions; feel free to believe what you want but try and exercise restraint against uneq…

As an atheist Indian (Hindu family), I think ideologies can be criticized. If you can paint Nazis and white supremacy beliefs in a broad brush, so can you criticize religions which unequivocally sentence people to hell for leaving the religion.

I’m not arguing against criticizing ideologies. I have no intention of republishing what the flagged parent said; I merely pointed out that the criticism needs to be valid, properly sourced and have understanding of nuances. This includes criticism of white supremacists and nazis.

Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#198

Post by dang »

coliveira wrote: post #133
dahidahi1 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is the church indulging in criticism? Who are they? What right do they have to do that? How do they know that the officials are corrupt? How do you know that is the only thing the church did, if they even did that? How do YOU know for a fact that the official was corrupt? Too many questions & you seem to be naive enough to take everything at face value. Again, why does the church interfere in such things? Isn't t…

Completely agree. The political behavior of the Christian church is well known across history, and entails basically getting the best benefits of the government for itself and persecution or suppression for other beliefs. People in this thread trying to support the political activity of Christians in China seem that have no historical perspective of what this religion did and does up to this day to advance its agenda…

Please stop.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18759118

Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#199

Post by dang »

rohit2412 wrote: post #176
coliveira wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Christians persecute Muslins. Muslins persecute Christians. Buddhists persecute Muslins. Christians persecute Jews. Muslins persecute Hinduism. It is not a Christian thing, it is a religion tradition all over the world to persecute other religions. Christians have done this for millennia and sometimes they are victims themselves. I think the solution is to stop with the craziness altogether.

When Buddhists persecute Muslims in Myanmar, it isn't because Buddha told them to do so. But when Muslims persecute yazidis, it is because Mohammed did so, and Quran has verses allowing it. To stop with the craziness, one should look at what motivates and incentivizes the craziness. And it turns out some religions are crazier than the others.

Religious flamewar is a bannable offense on Hacker News, and a comment like this really pours fuel on the fire. Please do not post like this here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#200

Post by dang »

whitecatexport wrote: post #2

China cracks down on 2000-year old invisible friends brain virus, as they should

We've banned this account for trolling.

If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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