SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission • Hacker News Board

Re: SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission

#61

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel » Tue, Dec 25, 2018, 2:54 AM UTC

trhway wrote: post #6

no employee protests against DOD projects :)

I'd expect workers for a US space launch company to know that their work will likely be used to launch US national security payloads, and to be OK with it.

Unlike workers working for a company that explicitly had "don't be evil" as a motto, withdrew from the Chinese market after state-sponsored attacks targeted dissident's accounts, and that had very little previously known/discussed military involvement, nor activity in a typically highly military-related field.

Re: SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission

#62

Post by extrapickles » Tue, Dec 25, 2018, 2:56 AM UTC

Phlarp wrote: post #38

sneak wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, its primary purpose is civilian. Its original and occasional purpose is military, sure, but as I mentioned, it is used far more widely now, by several orders of magnitude. Its military applications are so eclipsed now by non-war-related uses that the military origins are practically irrelevant.

Civilian use is wide yes, but this is only because it is provided for free by DoD. None of those uses would be economically viable if they had to bear the costs of developing, launching and maintaining the system. Keeping track of the boats and missiles pays the bills. Everything else is just a happy accident of zero marginal use cost.

It still economically viable for large governments to make their own for just civilian use, under the same logic that has government funding roads, parks and other public goods.

The GPS system cost ~$12 billion to make, and needs ~$750 million a year in maintenance (mainly launching new stats as they have a service life of 15 years). This means it costs each US taxpayer $5/year to run. Quite a few road/subway projects cost more than the GPS system.

Re: SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission

#63

Post by elihu » Tue, Dec 25, 2018, 2:56 AM UTC

Ericson2314 wrote: post #15

_0w8t wrote: post #9

SpaceX had to use a fully expendable Falcon for this launch. What makes a GPS satellite so heavy?

Did they originally intend to use a bigger rocket? It seems unlike them to throw one away at any price.

Perhaps they used one of their earlier rockets that are only designed to be reused a couple of times.

Re: SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission

#64

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel » Tue, Dec 25, 2018, 2:59 AM UTC

Roritharr wrote: post #26

marvin wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sattelite was some 8000kgs, vs. 4000-ish kgs for the previous-generation GPS satellites, if I remember correctly.

Any idea why their weight increased so much?

I wouldn't be surprised if the satellites had additional, classified capabilities.

Re: SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission

#65

Post by gpm » Tue, Dec 25, 2018, 2:59 AM UTC

dylan604 wrote: post #55

Do they mean first "successful" launch to orbit? I thought the launch where the payload failed to separate was the first launch, even though the launch was a success and the deployment failed. Why is this launch considered first?

They've successfully launched successful national security missions before that successfully separated (e.g. NROL 76). The headline is just wrong.

I think it is the first satellite in this particular set of related launches.

Re: SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission

#66

Post by Phlarp » Wed, Dec 26, 2018, 3:36 AM UTC

ricw wrote: post #50

Phlarp wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the world does not pay US taxes, it's completely free to them. At this point I just assume you are trolling.

Every GPS device pays a couple of cents to use the system, regardless of country. Whilst this initially may have been peanuts, I’d be pretty sure that this is a self-paying system by now.

Sure there is a royalty on some of the key parts of receiver hardware and software, but if you think that even comes close to the cost of the whole system you are in for a rude awakening. Those royalties won't have even paid for the original GPS sats, let alone the newer stuff going up in modern times.

The cheapest Iridium phone service plan is $50/month for just 10 minutes of talk time. Would you pay $50/month for 10 minutes of GPS navigation a month?

Re: SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission

#67

Post by Ericson2314 » Wed, Dec 26, 2018, 5:03 PM UTC

baq wrote: post #20

Ericson2314 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did they originally intend to use a bigger rocket? It seems unlike them to throw one away at any price.

This rocket was worth billions in opportunity dollars. I’m sure not a single tear was shed.

Hmm? Is the government paying billions for the launch? I doubt it.

Re: SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission

#68

Post by Ericson2314 » Wed, Dec 26, 2018, 5:05 PM UTC

gsnedders wrote: post #21

Ericson2314 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did they originally intend to use a bigger rocket? It seems unlike them to throw one away at any price.

SpaceX will happily sell you a single-use Falcon 9 (or Falcon Heavy) if you need the mass for your launch. Of course, one should expect to pay for the privilege.

Yeah I'm curious at what price. My guess is it massively contradicts their own PR on expected number of runs and thus their opportunity cost.

Re: SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission

#69

Post by gsnedders » Thu, Dec 27, 2018, 8:58 PM UTC

Ericson2314 wrote: post #68

gsnedders wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SpaceX will happily sell you a single-use Falcon 9 (or Falcon Heavy) if you need the mass for your launch. Of course, one should expect to pay for the privilege.

Yeah I'm curious at what price. My guess is it massively contradicts their own PR on expected number of runs and thus their opportunity cost.

I expect price-wise they're much closer to the competition there, but given they're still getting launches they can't be completely uncompetitive.

That said, remember they could potentially be using a rocket that's flown twice before (and AFAIK three launches is the most they've done so far), and as such may view the rocket as largely expendable anyway (they lose the ability to use it for re-entry experiments and to pull it down after the launch, but nothing else).