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Sending astronauts to Mars would be stupid, astronaut says

bbc.com

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Re: Sending astronauts to Mars would be stupid, astronaut says

#71

Post by masonic »

mgamache wrote: post #16

FTA: "I think the space shuttle was a serious error. It hardly did anything except have an exciting launch, but it never lived up to its promise," Few people are willing to call the shuttle a failure, but it was. It cost much more per mission than estimated and was supposed to lunch every two weeks. It averaged approximately one every 3 months. The payload was supposed to cost $635 per pound, but ended costing $27,00…

The contract award was based on utter lies.

Aside from the financial waste, the Challenger disaster never would have happened with the other team's bid because that subcontractor manufactured on the East coast -- boosters would have been manufactured in one piece and floated down on barges, not broken into segments to fit in rail cars (hence the seams and O rings).

Re: Sending astronauts to Mars would be stupid, astronaut says

#72

Post by masonic »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #69
lokedhs wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know much about US geography but isn't that a much cooler area? In any case, I doubt the community was self sufficient. I'm suspecting that much if not all consumables were actually produced outside the desert.

It was about 115 degrees Fahrenheit for two weeks straight in July one year. I routinely did my walking (for exercise) after dark because the temperature would drop down to a mere 99 degrees and the blazing sun being gone was wonderful. I was getting sunburned during the day just walking back and forth from house to car, car to building when I ran errands. It's one of the hottest, driest places in the US. Annual prec…

  I was getting sunburned during the day just walking back and forth from house to car
You don't get sunburn from heat, you get it from UV.

You'd be less likely to get sunburn in Death Valley as you would in non-desert terrain above sea level (given similar exposure and albedo).

Re: Sending astronauts to Mars would be stupid, astronaut says

#73

Post by DoreenMichele »

masonic wrote: post #72
DoreenMichele wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was about 115 degrees Fahrenheit for two weeks straight in July one year. I routinely did my walking (for exercise) after dark because the temperature would drop down to a mere 99 degrees and the blazing sun being gone was wonderful. I was getting sunburned during the day just walking back and forth from house to car, car to building when I ran errands. It's one of the hottest, driest places in the US. Annual prec…

I was getting sunburned during the day just walking back and forth from house to car You don't get sunburn from heat, you get it from UV. You'd be less likely to get sunburn in Death Valley as you would in non-desert terrain above sea level (given similar exposure and albedo).

You don't get sunburn from heat, you get it from UV.

I'm aware of that.

I think you misread something. I wasn't in Death Valley. I was near Death Valley.

As stated above, I was about 3000 feet above sea level. Death Valley is below sea level.

The sun is generally harsher at altitude and there wasn't a lot of vegetation, so there wasn't a lot of shade. So sunburn was a big issue there. I'm also part Irish. So it was more of an issue for me than for some people.

Re: Sending astronauts to Mars would be stupid, astronaut says

#74

Post by greenyoda »

mgamache wrote: post #16

FTA: "I think the space shuttle was a serious error. It hardly did anything except have an exciting launch, but it never lived up to its promise," Few people are willing to call the shuttle a failure, but it was. It cost much more per mission than estimated and was supposed to lunch every two weeks. It averaged approximately one every 3 months. The payload was supposed to cost $635 per pound, but ended costing $27,00…

Not to mention that we lost two of the five shuttles (Challenger and Columbia) and 14 astronauts' lives.

Re: Sending astronauts to Mars would be stupid, astronaut says

#75

Post by greenyoda »

ineedasername wrote: post #10
hnmonkey wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree somewhat with what this astronaut is saying, but generally speaking I think astronauts are supposed to be quite intelligent, especially about issues related to space. I was under the impression that each of them had excellent skills and knowledge in at least one area that benefits their missions and of course strong understanding of space-related things. So, to answer your question I don't think it's the c…

They're supposed to be quite intelligent about a very specific scenario: operating a specialized vehicle in launch, low/zero gravity, and landing. I wouldn't look to them for understanding or insight into the geopolitical or economic role their missions might be a part of. When listening to experts it's always very important to remember precisely what their expertise happens to be.

Astronauts also have first-hand knowledge about the risks of sending people into space, and have had friends that died or almost died on space missions. So they have a much more concrete concept of the cost-benefit tradeoffs of space travel than the rest of us.

Re: Sending astronauts to Mars would be stupid, astronaut says

#76

Post by gus_massa »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #48

With 7 billion people on the planet and that number only growing, it seems likely that we either find more room for people somewhere or face a massive population die-off event at some point. The humane answer is look for more room to put this burgeoning population of humans. The other answer is likely a case of hell to pay for most people on the planet. Even those who survive will likely be facing serious hardships a…

I don't expect a initial huge population transfer from Earth to Mars. Perhaps 100.000 in total? This will not reduce the population on Earth. We will continue to grow at the same rate.

Mars hopefully creates a backup plan in case there is a huuuge disaster on Earth.

Re: Sending astronauts to Mars would be stupid, astronaut says

#77

Post by kamaal »

assblaster wrote: post #21
Svoka wrote: post #20

> Musk and Bezos, they're talking about putting colonies on Mars, that's nonsense. Probably kind of people which were telling "They're talking about landing rockets, that's nonsense".

What is the cost:benefit ratio to long term colonization of an inhospitable planet?

Given that any colonization of space, can give the human race almost an infinite time to survive, evolve and grow in all possible facets of life. Id guess the cost/benefit, the benefits more or less tend to Infinity. Bring the ratio very close to 0.

Re: Sending astronauts to Mars would be stupid, astronaut says

#78

Post by kamaal »

mo1ok wrote: post #35
ryanmarsh wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine many had a similar view of sailing across the Atlantic before word spread of riches in the New World.

The cost:benefit of colonizing the new world was immense and known prior to widespread colonization, esp. in the tropical parts. Settling mars is like colonizing the Sahara desert, except this time with no oxygen or camels.

They are far higher now. See Asteroid mining.

Re: Sending astronauts to Mars would be stupid, astronaut says

#79

Post by ineedasername »

greenyoda wrote: post #75
ineedasername wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're supposed to be quite intelligent about a very specific scenario: operating a specialized vehicle in launch, low/zero gravity, and landing. I wouldn't look to them for understanding or insight into the geopolitical or economic role their missions might be a part of. When listening to experts it's always very important to remember precisely what their expertise happens to be.

Astronauts also have first-hand knowledge about the risks of sending people into space, and have had friends that died or almost died on space missions. So they have a much more concrete concept of the cost-benefit tradeoffs of space travel than the rest of us.

Okay, but even if I concede that point, that doesn't translate into a strong strategic view of the value of initiatives. To say otherwise is like saying a soldier that's been in battle has the same strategic view of things as a general in overall command. The soldier is more informed than the average person, but far from an expert level knowledge of the big picture.

And that may be besides the point: It seem to me this astronaut didn't make make a cogent argument from the perspective of cost-benefit tradeoffs and risk of human lives. Instead he raised vague criticisms: "It's ridiculous" and "what's the imperative... I don't think the public is that interested"

In fact available data directly refutes this astronaut's view: at least one survey from a few years ago found widespread support (about 75%) for a manned mission [0]. As of this year interest has declined somewhat [1], but still 63% rate mars as important or higher.

[0] https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/02/11/poll-america...

[1] https://www.fastcompany.com/40581121/survey-most-americans-s...

Re: Sending astronauts to Mars would be stupid, astronaut says

#80

Post by Svoka »

assblaster wrote: post #21
Svoka wrote: post #20

> Musk and Bezos, they're talking about putting colonies on Mars, that's nonsense. Probably kind of people which were telling "They're talking about landing rockets, that's nonsense".

What is the cost:benefit ratio to long term colonization of an inhospitable planet?

Virtually infinite resources & energy. I don't even understand what's debate is about.
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