Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

"Please take this down and write your own book."

github.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 178 posts

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#81

Post by Semiapies »

sp4rki wrote: post #75

Why are a lot of people missing stuff like this: "have some class and use your own words and write your own book" and this "Guys like you are the reason I stopped doing Ruby"? I agree with Zed that the idea was borderline useless since both languages have their ways and a direct translation lacks focus anyway. I also agree that it's Zed's work, and he granted use of his work with a license which doesn't allow this ty…

When you act in a classless way, whether that's making fart noises in a restaurant or plagiarizing someone's work, you risk the pain of being told to act with more class.

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#82

Post by Semiapies »

pjscott wrote: post #76
scott_s wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read it not as "I'm an amazing programmer because I work for Engine Yard," but "I work for a company that clearly depends on your work - I respect what you've done."

On behalf of everyone who tries to communicate over the internet, I'd like to thank you for assuming the nicer interpretation. It's easy to misinterpret someone's tone, and written communication goes so much more smoothly when people avoid making angry assumptions.

I'm not sure "Hey, I write stuff using your software, you should tolerate my mistreatment of you better!" is a nicer interpretation.

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#83

Post by masklinn »

forsaken wrote: post #47
JanezStupar wrote: post #26

This is Zeeed Shaaaaw!!! I have never met the guy, but I surely hope that I get the privilege some day, even if he just picks on me and tells me that my work is worthless piece of junk and that if it implodes in a second it would be a service to the world - because that might be single most insightful and sincere analysis one might receive. Kudos to anyone with a pair, that is capable of speaking their mind in today'…

Zed is actually really nice in person.

He doesn't come across badly here. Stern, but fair if a bit harsh. And the other guy comes across as a working device of non-standard proportions.

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#84

Post by martinemde »

scott_s wrote: post #49
rubyrescue wrote: post #16

"I'm a fucking Engine Yard programmer for fuck sake." - what an arrogant statement.

I read it not as "I'm an amazing programmer because I work for Engine Yard," but "I work for a company that clearly depends on your work - I respect what you've done."

Thank you for this. It's been my intention this whole time to point out that I really enjoy all of Zed's work. And felt a attacked when I thought I was doing something good. I felt a translation was helpful, but I took it down immediately when I received a complaint. I like what Zed has done and use it daily. Working at Engine Yard is not something I see as being better than any other job, only that we're a prominent user of Mongrel, possibly the largest in the world.

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#85

Post by pmjordan »

kenjackson wrote: post #39
pmjordan wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that would have helped. Being caught infringing on someone's copyright is embarrassing to say the least. Embarrassment and being given advice, no matter how well-meaning, will often not go down well. In fact, many people get extra annoyed when you're nice about this sort of thing. I think Zed's initial approach was a close approximation of the best way to handle this. Although I probably would have left it at…

I disagree. Frankly many people don't understand copyright law. Ask average Joe on the street what is Fair Use and most people don't have a clue. The Ruby guy didn't seem to know he was violating Fair Use, if so he likely wouldn't have called "Learn Ruby the Hard Way", and probably would make it more difficult to find for people that read the Python version, especially the author himself. And I think if you couple th…

Speculation about interpretation and motives notwithstanding:

Not knowing the ins and outs of copyright law and licensing is neither excuse nor reason to blow up at a takedown request. Innocent mistake or not.

The parody and citation exemptions would presumably not allow verbatim lifting of large sections of prose, though. (presumably hence "may")

Based on the thread following the initial reaction they probably both owe each other an apology.

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#86

Post by JoeCortopassi »

epo wrote: post #13
jasonkester wrote: post #7

This is a good illustration of how tone doesn't come across well in writing. Reading the comment by the original author, it sounded like a friendly request to please take the content down. The guy whose site it was clearly didn't see it that way and responded as though he'd been viscously attacked. He ends up coming across as quite angry, when more likely he was just rattled and feeling defensive. I guess the takeawa…

Given the circumstances I thought Zed was reasonably civil.

Totally agree. Trying to get a hold of someone, then assuming permission when they don't respond isn't ok. I'd be pissed to...

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#87

Post by ohyes »

This is clearly not plagiarism. At no point did the translator take credit for the original work. There is a definition for plagiarism; it involves taking credit for someone else's original work.

Zed would probably have done better by simply quoting the license and asking him to take it down (because of copywrite infringement) instead of incorrectly accusing him of plagiarism (which implies he was doing the translation in bad faith).

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#89

Post by Semiapies »

nickpinkston wrote: post #79
xentronium wrote: post #37

I'm probably gonna get downvoted, but now I'm quite sure that web really IS public domain. We just have to state it explicitly. From now on gonna use public domain license on any public work I produce. Who's with me?

Well, there's copyright's all over the web, and anything without it is common law'ed into being copyrighted - so no. Personally, I go by the mantra of "if you post it, anyone can use it how they like". Sure, Zed is within his legal rights to ask for this, but I'm surprised no one is viewing this from the angle of the Ruby community losing a (possibly) valuable resource because "Zed's brand" has to be maintained... Se…

As linked elsewhere: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1739890

Copy & paste probably won't make a useful Ruby book.

"Seems like everyone is so sensitive about the sanctity of their ideas."

That's the pain of dealing with other human beings as if they are human beings and not just web sites or github repositories.

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#90

Post by 16s »

jpcx01 wrote: post #41

Someone, please tell me where there is a copyright notice anywhere on http://learnpythonthehardway.org/ or on the PDF http://learnpythonthehardway.org/static/LearnPythonTheHardWa... If he's so fanatical about copyright, why can't he post something about it? The culture developers are used to on github is forking people's work and tweaking it (while still giving attribution to the author). It's not totally shocking th…

You don't understand how much you don't understand about copyright.
Post reply on HN