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"Please take this down and write your own book."

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Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#61

Post by Semiapies »

citricsquid wrote: post #50
JanezStupar wrote: post #26

This is Zeeed Shaaaaw!!! I have never met the guy, but I surely hope that I get the privilege some day, even if he just picks on me and tells me that my work is worthless piece of junk and that if it implodes in a second it would be a service to the world - because that might be single most insightful and sincere analysis one might receive. Kudos to anyone with a pair, that is capable of speaking their mind in today'…

Like it or not Zed is entirely right here. It's his work, the guy had no permission, it has nothing to do with being "politically correct" it has everything to do with no being a dick and respecting a persons ownership and the effort they put into something. Whether or not Zed is the biggest dick in the world is irrelevant.

Absolutely. It's one thing to take issue with the tone of someone voicing an opinion or reacting to your opinion, but it's another to whine that someone's not being friendly when he's telling you to stop stealing his work.

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#62

Post by nowarninglabel »

mdonahoe wrote: post #55

Interesting. On the page about the book[1], Zed also links to How To Think Like a Computer Scientist, another popular book for learning Python. Allen Downey was the first author on that book, but initially he wrote it in Java: "I released the book under the GNU Free Documentation License, which allows users to copy, modify, and distribute the book. What happened next is the cool part. Jeff Elkner, a high school teach…

A different reaction for a different license. Notice that 37 days ago a fellow hacker realized that the license didn't allow for porting into Ruby though they wanted to do so: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1739890

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#63

Post by 16s »

joshuacc wrote: post #38

Interestingly, Martin has now updated the readme https://github.com/martinemde/learn-ruby-the-hard-way#readme He concedes both of Zed's main points: 1. That he didn't have a legal right to "translate" the book 2. That "translating" the book from Python to Ruby didn't work all that well anyway The rest of the message boils down to a complaint that Zed wasn't nice enough in his takedown request. While Zed could have ph…

Not nice? He could have sent a settlement offer... pay me X dollars for damaging my reputation as an author and I will promise not to sue you. Some may argue that Zed was not "damaged" by this juvenile act, but a good lawyer would have no problem proving damage if push came to shove.

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#64

Post by dctoedt »

johnny22 wrote: post #54
jpcx01 wrote: post #41

Someone, please tell me where there is a copyright notice anywhere on http://learnpythonthehardway.org/ or on the PDF http://learnpythonthehardway.org/static/LearnPythonTheHardWa... If he's so fanatical about copyright, why can't he post something about it? The culture developers are used to on github is forking people's work and tweaking it (while still giving attribution to the author). It's not totally shocking th…

copyright is implicit in many places isn't it?

In the U.S., and AFAIK in much of the rest of the world, copyright arises automatically, without the need for either registration or a copyright notice, once the "original work of authorship" is "fixed" in a "tangible medium of expression" (which can include saving to disk). See generally http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright#Obtaining_copyright

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#65

Post by jpcx01 »

JshWright wrote: post #59
mdonahoe wrote: post #55

Interesting. On the page about the book[1], Zed also links to How To Think Like a Computer Scientist, another popular book for learning Python. Allen Downey was the first author on that book, but initially he wrote it in Java: "I released the book under the GNU Free Documentation License, which allows users to copy, modify, and distribute the book. What happened next is the cool part. Jeff Elkner, a high school teach…

It would only be "the same thing" if Zed chose to release his content under the GNU Free Documentation License, which he did not. It's his content, and he can do with it what he choses. If he doesn't want folks to "copy, modify, and distribute" his content, that's fine with me (not that it matters, since it's _his_ content).

Really? You see no similarities between these 2 cases?

I only see one big difference. One author cares about only himself and his own little world

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#66

Post by Semiapies »

jasonkester wrote: post #7

This is a good illustration of how tone doesn't come across well in writing. Reading the comment by the original author, it sounded like a friendly request to please take the content down. The guy whose site it was clearly didn't see it that way and responded as though he'd been viscously attacked. He ends up coming across as quite angry, when more likely he was just rattled and feeling defensive. I guess the takeawa…

Or, when someone's pointing out that you're wronging him, don't even worry about interpretation of tone. Worry about whether you've done something wrong, and if you have, then 1) fix it, 2) apologize, and finally 3) don't do that again.

"Make excuses" and "berate the person for being angered by your wrongdoing" are not on this list.

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#67

Post by goosemo »

kenjackson wrote: post #12
jasonkester wrote: post #7

This is a good illustration of how tone doesn't come across well in writing. Reading the comment by the original author, it sounded like a friendly request to please take the content down. The guy whose site it was clearly didn't see it that way and responded as though he'd been viscously attacked. He ends up coming across as quite angry, when more likely he was just rattled and feeling defensive. I guess the takeawa…

The problem with Zed's response, IMO, is the end. Where he says to the guy to have some class and use his own words. While I completely get what Zed is saying about asking permission. I don't think that "porting" a book is lacking class. It may turn out to be a futile effort, but in many ways I saw it as a tribute and maybe learning exercise. It would be a blast to do SICP in Java. For Java programmers the process of…

The guy has a dong api... class defense fail. https://github.com/martinemde/dicks

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#68

Post by tkeller »

jasonkester wrote: post #7

This is a good illustration of how tone doesn't come across well in writing. Reading the comment by the original author, it sounded like a friendly request to please take the content down. The guy whose site it was clearly didn't see it that way and responded as though he'd been viscously attacked. He ends up coming across as quite angry, when more likely he was just rattled and feeling defensive. I guess the takeawa…

I see what you're saying, but... it's copyright infringement and license violation. Politeness is not a requirement.

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#69

Post by amadiver »

jasonkester wrote: post #7

This is a good illustration of how tone doesn't come across well in writing. Reading the comment by the original author, it sounded like a friendly request to please take the content down. The guy whose site it was clearly didn't see it that way and responded as though he'd been viscously attacked. He ends up coming across as quite angry, when more likely he was just rattled and feeling defensive. I guess the takeawa…

"If you want to write a similar book for Ruby then have some class and use your own words and write your own book."

I'd say that's harsh, and unnecessary. I'd feel attacked if that was directed at me, too, especially if I felt (rightly or not) that I'd kept things on the level.

No one needs to be polite, especially when they feel the need to protect their work. But in not doing so, they belie a certain amount of lack of empathy.

It's a shame posts like this get upvoted for the drama and this behavior is rewarded.

Re: "Please take this down and write your own book."

#70

Post by dsteinweg »

scott_s wrote: post #49
rubyrescue wrote: post #16

"I'm a fucking Engine Yard programmer for fuck sake." - what an arrogant statement.

I read it not as "I'm an amazing programmer because I work for Engine Yard," but "I work for a company that clearly depends on your work - I respect what you've done."

After hearing your interpretation, I realize that probably does make more sense within the context of the paragraph.

But I certainly heard it the other way first. That's probably another good example of meaning being lost in text compared to spoken word.

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