Why American cities are weirdly shaped • Hacker News Board

Re: Why American cities are weirdly shaped

#41

Post by DFHippie » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 2:31 PM UTC

mprev wrote: post #17

chrisseaton wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right but that's comparing a city in the north to a city miles away in the south. We're talking about the immediate boundary between outside a city and inside a city, aren't we? My local city is Chester, and I couldn't even tell you where the limit of Chester is now - I presume it's no longer the old Roman walls. When you cross that boundary wherever it is, nothing changes. It's still the same local government author…

Isn’t there a welcome to Wales sign on one side of the city? I always find it fun driving over the border and suddenly you can araf at the gwasanethau for a paned o de.

I know no one else cares, and this isn't really my nit to pick, but "araf" is an adjective meaning "slow", not a verb, so you can't really "can" it at all.

Re: Why American cities are weirdly shaped

#42

Post by mprev » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 2:34 PM UTC

DFHippie wrote: post #41

mprev wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t there a welcome to Wales sign on one side of the city? I always find it fun driving over the border and suddenly you can araf at the gwasanethau for a paned o de.

I know no one else cares, and this isn't really my nit to pick, but "araf" is an adjective meaning "slow", not a verb, so you can't really "can" it at all.

I care! Thanks for pointing that out.

Re: Why American cities are weirdly shaped

#43

Post by zazen » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 2:38 PM UTC

mprev wrote: post #30

chrisseaton wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's because you're leaving the country , not because you're leaving the city. The city boundary isn't relevant there - the country boundary is.

Well, sure, I’m not saying otherwise. It was just a comment unworthy of a parry.

I sympathise with @chrisseaton's frustration. When you make a comment highlighting something that looks superficially similar but is actually irrelevant, that's going to tend to derail the conversation. If your comment was unworthy of a parry, maybe that's a hint that it was unworthy of being made in the first place. Please make an effort to be part of the signal not part of the noise, even if your brand of noise is inoffensive.

Re: Why American cities are weirdly shaped

#44

Post by DFHippie » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 2:38 PM UTC

nivertech wrote: post #29

robteix wrote: post #3

> The county is home to 88 incorporated cities, ranging in population from 76 (Vernon) to 3.9m (Los Angeles itself). Beverly Hills (population 34,506) is its own city, with its own police force, fire department and school district. So is Santa Monica (92,495). Even Vernon has a police department, with some 50-odd staff. Am I misreading this? How/why does a city of 76 have a police dept with 50 people?

"Leonis Malburg, the mayor for fifty years, was convicted of voter fraud, conspiracy, and perjury in December 2009." [1] Wow! Trying to spread democracy in the world, when you have little dictators in your own backyard. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernon,_California#Elections_o...

So.... you're opposed to democracy if neighbors of its advocates are impure? Or was the mayor one of the advocates spreading it abroad? Maybe they shouldn't have convicted him in order to keep their record clean?

I'm having trouble getting at the meat of your criticism.

Re: Why American cities are weirdly shaped

#45

Post by hoorayimhelping » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 2:40 PM UTC

huffmsa wrote: post #12

Can't read the article because the economist Saya I've read my free monthly limit. If the article is about governmental districts, it's because Americans are predisposed to having lots of small localized governments. Don't like what the guys 5 miles over are doing? Incorporate a township and run your own government.

>Can't read the article because the economist Saya I've read my free monthly limit.

Google the link (on Firefox and Chrome, prepend a question mark to the url to force a search), or open the link in incognito mode are the two most common ways around paywalls.

Either way, there's a lot in the article and it seems wise to read it before answering the question it poses with a single sentence.

Re: Why American cities are weirdly shaped

#46

Post by jnellis » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 2:45 PM UTC

macleginn wrote: post #11

robteix wrote: post #3

> The county is home to 88 incorporated cities, ranging in population from 76 (Vernon) to 3.9m (Los Angeles itself). Beverly Hills (population 34,506) is its own city, with its own police force, fire department and school district. So is Santa Monica (92,495). Even Vernon has a police department, with some 50-odd staff. Am I misreading this? How/why does a city of 76 have a police dept with 50 people?

The reason, it seems, is that a lot of people come there to work, but live elsewhere: ‘Founded in 1905 as the first exclusively industrial city in the Southwestern United States, Vernon currently houses more than 1,800 businesses that employ approximately 50,000 people, serving as a vital economic engine in the region.’ ( http://www.cityofvernon.org/about-vernon )

Yep. Signal Hill,CA (pop. 11k) is 2sq miles, is engulfed smack dab in the middle of the city of Long Beach(pop. 500k) yet has BOTH Home Depots and THE Costco, the only ones 'in' Long Beach.

Re: Why American cities are weirdly shaped

#47

Post by xte » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 2:45 PM UTC

A different question: can we build a manageable city for modern era? I think not.

More in details we have already accepted that our constructions (roads, bridges etc included) do not last forever even with proper maintenance but I still have to see plans about how to rebuild buildings and infrastructure when they'll reach their EOL...

Even without counting that we already seen that we can't predict the future enough to build today something that can remain good, comfortable and useful after 50/100+ years, for instance in "ancient" area (+50 years only) we do not foresee today's need for parking, in today are many now try to imaging a future with drone and perhaps flying cars and we have nearly no idea on how to design today something that can work also for that future scenario.

The only think we know is that if we have abundant resources, space included, we can evolve with difficulties, stress etc but we can, in dense area or without much resources is practically impossible. That's why many not-much-developed countries in eastern Europe have better broadband than far more developed one, that's why the USA struggle to build hi-speed rails etc.

Many say that "riviera model" does not work, while I still to see definitive proofs, but I do not see ANY real working alternatives. Developed Asia scenarios like SK/metropolitan Japan are essentially nightmare if you have to live in, not just visit as tourist.

Re: Why American cities are weirdly shaped

#48

Post by dayofthedaleks » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 3:05 PM UTC

robertAngst wrote: post #34

mc32 wrote: post #9

The article implies that if cities could unilaterally annex twrritory they would and that presumanly would result in nicer city shapes (boundaries) as well as more importantly better and cheaper services due to elimination of redundancies. Interestingly the article claims both rich and poor people are reluctant to give up their enclaves/ independence due to power, momey, and other aspects such as education.

My city is one of the best in our area. Best schools, safe, and has a high property tax. 10 miles south of us is Detroit. Where the Detroit voters re-elected Kawammi kilpatrick despite having constant public corruption. Do I want those voters to impact my schools? Do those voters want to spend 9,000$/yr on property taxes? Its far too simplistic to think that there is only redundancies at play.

Glad that the Voice of White Flight Suburbs could chime in.

Edit: Also, it looks like Kwame Kilpatrick hasn't stood for office in more than a decade.

Exactly what axe are you grinding, here?

Re: Why American cities are weirdly shaped

#49

Post by cjf4 » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 3:06 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #2

My understanding is that a city boundary in the US is a big deal. The police force on either side can be completely different, things that can get you in a lot of trouble like gun laws can be different on either side, prices and taxes can be very different. In the UK a city boundary doesn't really mean anything. There might be a nice 'Welcome to X' sign but nothing really changes as it would in the US. I'm not even s…

>My understanding is that a city boundary in the US is a big deal. The police force on either side can be completely different, things that can get you in a lot of trouble like gun laws can be different on either side, prices and taxes can be very different.

The biggest thing that changes is the school district. City schools tend to be worse than suburban counterparts, and that completely drives a cities ability to retain young families, thus altering the demographic makeup and tax base of the city.

Re: Why American cities are weirdly shaped

#50

Post by nivertech » Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 3:16 PM UTC

DFHippie wrote: post #44

nivertech wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Leonis Malburg, the mayor for fifty years, was convicted of voter fraud, conspiracy, and perjury in December 2009." [1] Wow! Trying to spread democracy in the world, when you have little dictators in your own backyard. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernon,_California#Elections_o...

So.... you're opposed to democracy if neighbors of its advocates are impure? Or was the mayor one of the advocates spreading it abroad? Maybe they shouldn't have convicted him in order to keep their record clean? I'm having trouble getting at the meat of your criticism.

The accent was on "the mayor for fifty years".

Local government is still a government. Things like this and the Electoral College make US an archaic democracy. Maybe it's better to fix your own system, before trying to teach others?

The fact that you had a banana republic with a life-long dictator just 5 miles from downtown LA - speaks something.

No criticism, more like a surprise. I don't care about politics and even if I did, I'm from a country which is a strong US ally.