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What do you want to see in Learn C The Hard Way?

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Re: What do you want to see in Learn C The Hard Way?

#91

Post by alnayyir »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #65
alnayyir wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the learner would appreciate the subtleties, and I don't agree that they'll learn anything from it. I can reinforce each lesson/problem you're describing one by one through the exercises, but a new person simply wouldn't know good code if it slapped them in the face. Confer with Learn Python the Hard Way to get a feel for the aesthetic and technique I'm working towards. I don't want to write bulletproof…

If you're not qualified to meet that standard then don't write a C book (or learn more before you do). C programs are either bulletproof or they are a hazard.

The unwillingness to do for fear of violating some perfect model leads to never making progress at all.

No such thing as a perfect program, startup, relationship, or book.

Re: What do you want to see in Learn C The Hard Way?

#92

Post by crux_ »

alnayyir wrote: post #87
crux_ wrote: post #75

I'm not sure it makes sense any more to teach C to beginners -- by the time someone has a need to write C code, they really ought to have mastered programming in another language or three, first. Personally, I think a teaching/review ladder would be as or more helpful than a tutorial text. Getting good at C, at least from my current starting point, seems to mostly be a matter of discipline and practice. I'm thinking…

>I'm not sure it makes sense any more to teach C to beginners Good thing I'm not writing it for beginners. >I'll probably be releasing code from my first medium-sized C project in a week or so... anyone care to offer tips on how to get more experienced eyeballs on it? Uh, that's a toughie actually. IRC can be pretty rough.

Unfortunately I think you mean "rough" as in non-responsive... not as in pitiless -- which, assuming a suitable level of expertise, would be great for me.

Re: What do you want to see in Learn C The Hard Way?

#93

Post by fauigerzigerk »

jimwise wrote: post #84
fauigerzigerk wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're not qualified to meet that standard then don't write a C book (or learn more before you do). C programs are either bulletproof or they are a hazard.

On the bright side, forcing yourself to write bulletproof code for the book may well be the best way to become qualified.

If I understood him correctly he said that he didn't want to try to do that.

Re: What do you want to see in Learn C The Hard Way?

#94

Post by alnayyir »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #93
jimwise wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the bright side, forcing yourself to write bulletproof code for the book may well be the best way to become qualified.

If I understood him correctly he said that he didn't want to try to do that.

Sort of, I'm not going to try to write perfect code, but I will make myself a better programmer by doing this.

Further, the aim is to teach people how and why to write bulletproof code, not to demonstrate bulletproof CString tutorials.

Re: What do you want to see in Learn C The Hard Way?

#96

Post by fauigerzigerk »

alnayyir wrote: post #91
fauigerzigerk wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're not qualified to meet that standard then don't write a C book (or learn more before you do). C programs are either bulletproof or they are a hazard.

The unwillingness to do for fear of violating some perfect model leads to never making progress at all. No such thing as a perfect program, startup, relationship, or book.

I'm not saying you shouldn't write the book because it might not be perfect. I just disagree with your concept for the book. I think readers must see good code even if they don't understand immediately why it is good code. C programs that aren't really good tend to be really bad because they crash or worse.

Not being perfect is not the same as going in the wrong direction.

Re: What do you want to see in Learn C The Hard Way?

#97

Post by alnayyir »

crux_ wrote: post #92
alnayyir wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm not sure it makes sense any more to teach C to beginners Good thing I'm not writing it for beginners. >I'll probably be releasing code from my first medium-sized C project in a week or so... anyone care to offer tips on how to get more experienced eyeballs on it? Uh, that's a toughie actually. IRC can be pretty rough.

Unfortunately I think you mean "rough" as in non-responsive... not as in pitiless -- which, assuming a suitable level of expertise, would be great for me.

No I mean pitiless. The C channel I've observed for years is out and out brutal.

Re: What do you want to see in Learn C The Hard Way?

#98

Post by alnayyir »

donspaulding wrote: post #88

I "learned C" in my CS101 classes as a first language. I liked it, and was able to get around a little in it, but I never retained any of it. I plan on studying this book. Here's my "gimme, gimme, gimme" list: - Please make it bulletproof code, as mentioned above. I would hate to spend time relearning C the hard way AND the wrong way. - Please get me to the point where I can make use of other libraries effectively. I…

#1: You'll learn to write good code, I'm not going to ride the bicycle in front of you though. That said, I won't lie like math teachers do either.

#2: Plan on it, although I won't be teaching "MAEK GTK GUI LUL" either. That's up to the student to do on their own time.

#3: I'm not clever enough to make clever C code. I can write Python that peels paint though.

Re: What do you want to see in Learn C The Hard Way?

#100

Post by alnayyir »

dfox wrote: post #67
alnayyir wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll teach function pointers, and might expose them to some style of OO C, but I haven't made any decisions on it. My approach is going to be relatively unflavored by the Macro Hell of other projects. I'd rather not instill those habits. They can learn that on their own time. I want the learner prepared to write clean sysprog code. That's it, the rest they can learn having been taught proper C and make their own styl…

Well, function pointers are only one aspect of this. Suprisingly many experienced C programmers I've met don't know that you can safely cast pointer to struct to pointer to it's first field, which is pretty important trick to achieve reasonable OO (with real inheritance) in C.

I know a line cook that codes C on his free time that would strangle someone who was paid to code that couldn't make a fake object + method calls out of a struct and function pointers.
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