Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

thetransportpolitic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 171 posts

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#51

Post by techsupporter »

beerlord wrote: post #33

I would prefer to live in the US than any of these countries funding HSR. Electric cars and electric scooters are enough to get around the city and around the state, with flights for anything much longer than that. Autonomous vehicles available via subscription will make that even better.

The problem is that flights are not sustainable much longer. Flying uses an astounding amount of subsidized fossil fuels, requires infrastructure that takes up quite a large amount of space, and is increasingly both inconvenient and intrusive. They're also a separate matter from the last-mile problem that bicycles, scooters, and autonomous vehicles aim to solve (assuming we can structure AV use in a way that, during the transition period towards full subscription use, doesn't increase traffic like so-called ridesharing taxis do now).

The United States can be one of these countries funding HSR. Countries that are quite pleasant to live in--and some that aren't, depending on your outlook--are already funding HSR and already have expansive rail networks. There's no reason we can't, too.

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#52

Post by giantsloth »

We (the USA) have an economy based around taxing the 99% and cutting societal benefits, not limited to just infrastructure. Wall Street doesn't see profits to be made by funding large public sector interstate projects, and they (along with corporate monopolies in tech and pharma, big oil, insurance and real estate) choose our policy and forego anything that would help stimulate production outside of debt collection/rent collection/patent trolling and stock inflation via buy backs.

The fact is these sectors don't want to stimulate economic growth, they want to suppress wages, suppress the growth of future competitors and continue collecting massive amounts of unearned income via debt/rents/patent trolling/etc...

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#54

Post by simongray »

sandworm101 wrote: post #9
pseudolus wrote: post #2

The article might focus on the US but Canada shouldn't be overlooked for its own neglect of high-speed rail. The Toronto-Montreal corridor is a clear candidate for such a service which has been promised onwards of decades now.

Canada's size, terrain, and population density make it a special case. Ottawa-toronto might work, but vancouver-calgary would be insanely expensive if even possible. Linking across the country ... we might as well not bother charging for tickets and just call it a government project never intended to break even. And in the north, spaceX rockets might be cheaper.

Seems like Canada could realistically cover almost 75% of the population: https://i.redd.it/sjbijiqb0u211.png

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#56

Post by the8472 »

rdl wrote: post #4

We have $2/gallon gas, from massive domestic production (and similar or lower prices for Jet-A). There are traffic congestion reasons for mass transit in cities, but we're pretty sorted for inter-city.

For inter-city travel high speed trains will outpace any car even under ideal traffic conditions.

Paris - Stuttgart Car: >6h; TGV: ~3h

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#57

Post by craigzucchini »

pseudolus wrote: post #45
sandworm101 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada's size, terrain, and population density make it a special case. Ottawa-toronto might work, but vancouver-calgary would be insanely expensive if even possible. Linking across the country ... we might as well not bother charging for tickets and just call it a government project never intended to break even. And in the north, spaceX rockets might be cheaper.

I don't think anyone is seriously considering a cross Canada high speed train connection. The emphasis has always been, as it is in many other regions, on short hops lasting up to 3-4 hours over highly trafficked routes. Portions of the Quebec City to Windsor corridor are ideal candidates for high-speed connections.

Isn't it interesting to think about though? If you could built a coast to coast—or even half way—high speed transit option that isn't a bus or car, what would it look like? If you could use existing infrastructure with perhaps minor changes, what could you build or think of? It's really a domain that presents insane constraints to work in/on. Infrastructure currently costs tremendous amounts to build and maintain, the distance is extremely vast, the terrain is rugged, the climate varies wildly, the population is low and spread out. What sort of impact could it have on future urban development?

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#58

Post by skywhopper »

cobookman wrote: post #14
tomohawk wrote: post #5

High speed rail is a non-starter in the US, except for in certain regions. It's 2000 miles from Chicago to LA. Optimistically, if you had a train that averaged 200 miles an hour, it would still take 10 hours. That's just not competitive.

100% spot on. Many don't realize just how large the us is. Going from SF to ATL is longer distance than Portugal to Belarus.

Why do you pick San Francisco to Atlanta of all pairs of cities? How about Atlanta and Charlotte? Atlanta and Nashville? Dallas and Oklahoma City? Dallas and Houston? Dallas and Memphis? Memphis and Nashville? Nashville and Louisville? Louisville and Cincinnati? Cincinnati and Cleveland? Cleveland and Chicago? Chicago and St Louis? Chicago and Milwaukee? St Louis and Kansas City? Boston and New York? New York and DC? DC and Philadelphia? Philadelphia and Pittsburgh? Pittsburgh and Cleveland? These pairs are all in the sweet spot of where high speed rail makes an incredible amount of sense. And lots of the people driving or flying between them regularly would much rather take a comfortable train.

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#59

Post by soheil »

mythrowaway1124 wrote: post #21
tomohawk wrote: post #5

High speed rail is a non-starter in the US, except for in certain regions. It's 2000 miles from Chicago to LA. Optimistically, if you had a train that averaged 200 miles an hour, it would still take 10 hours. That's just not competitive.

I'd take a 10 hour train trip from Chicago to LA in a heartbeat. Security lines are shorter, and the beginning and end of a train trip both happen at a literal train station, so it's usually easier to get into and out of the city center.

Security lines are shorter than airports now because public is not relying on trains in the US for travel as much as airplanes yet, if that happens what makes you think there won't be TSA all over train stations making you take your shoes off before boarding?

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#60

Post by rdl »

reindeerer wrote: post #50
rdl wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self driving will solve that; self driving is absolutely there already technically if we restricted it to special lanes/highways/etc, and probably could be 100% of interstates already too. There are some city center to nearby city center where rail would be nice, I agree. Most of the time when I'm going intercity it is by plane.

If you think you see general solution for "self driving" in next 20 years, i have a bridge to sell you

In a restricted lane (dedicated to only self driving vehicles), we have had this capability for at least 15 years.
Post reply on HN