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As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

thetransportpolitic.com

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Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#41

Post by superwayne »

tomohawk wrote: post #5

High speed rail is a non-starter in the US, except for in certain regions. It's 2000 miles from Chicago to LA. Optimistically, if you had a train that averaged 200 miles an hour, it would still take 10 hours. That's just not competitive.

I don't think that this is necessarily true. In Europe we have night trains running between countries which of course also take 8 or 10 hours or more and they are more or less profitable.

However an average speed of 200 miles (320 km) per hour is still a lot. Especially because you will have stops in between which of course means that the v_max must be even higher.

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#42

Post by rdl »

craigzucchini wrote: post #29
rdl wrote: post #4

We have $2/gallon gas, from massive domestic production (and similar or lower prices for Jet-A). There are traffic congestion reasons for mass transit in cities, but we're pretty sorted for inter-city.

If you have, have access to, are able, or want to drive a car, then at best it's reasonable option for places outside of denser areas, albeit far more expensive than the cost of gas. While cars are certainly good in some ways at getting people around to places that don't make sense to service with more significant options, they shouldn't be considered first when thinking about new development imo.

A non-new, efficient car (say, a 3 year old Prius) is about $0.15/mi to operate.

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#43

Post by tanilama »

lunchbreak wrote: post #20

Wendover had a good video about China's rail network a while ago. [1] Major points are: 1. China is willing to build loves that aren't self sustainable - whereas the USA isn't (and the US doesn't factor in the social benefits) 2. China's airspace is mostly military - leading to only small flight corridors and therefore significant delays for flights - making trains more reliable 3. China is willing to make train line…

Maybe US should rethink a little bit why it takes until 2029 to build a railway in between SF and LA, maybe the due diligence is exaggerated and wear the whole process down?

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#44

Post by [deleted] »

_delirium wrote: post #23
rdl wrote: post #4

We have $2/gallon gas, from massive domestic production (and similar or lower prices for Jet-A). There are traffic congestion reasons for mass transit in cities, but we're pretty sorted for inter-city.

Traffic congestion is a pretty big issue for intercity too in some regions. Dallas-Houston is a mere 240 miles but often takes 5 hours to drive. Even in "light" traffic, 4 or so is common. You can do a lot better than that with even decently upgraded "legacy" rail, never mind a Shinkansen/TGV type system. For example, London-Manchester is 210 miles, and trains take only 2 hours.

[deleted]

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#45

Post by pseudolus »

sandworm101 wrote: post #9
pseudolus wrote: post #2

The article might focus on the US but Canada shouldn't be overlooked for its own neglect of high-speed rail. The Toronto-Montreal corridor is a clear candidate for such a service which has been promised onwards of decades now.

Canada's size, terrain, and population density make it a special case. Ottawa-toronto might work, but vancouver-calgary would be insanely expensive if even possible. Linking across the country ... we might as well not bother charging for tickets and just call it a government project never intended to break even. And in the north, spaceX rockets might be cheaper.

I don't think anyone is seriously considering a cross Canada high speed train connection. The emphasis has always been, as it is in many other regions, on short hops lasting up to 3-4 hours over highly trafficked routes. Portions of the Quebec City to Windsor corridor are ideal candidates for high-speed connections.

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#46

Post by davnicwil »

_delirium wrote: post #23
rdl wrote: post #4

We have $2/gallon gas, from massive domestic production (and similar or lower prices for Jet-A). There are traffic congestion reasons for mass transit in cities, but we're pretty sorted for inter-city.

Traffic congestion is a pretty big issue for intercity too in some regions. Dallas-Houston is a mere 240 miles but often takes 5 hours to drive. Even in "light" traffic, 4 or so is common. You can do a lot better than that with even decently upgraded "legacy" rail, never mind a Shinkansen/TGV type system. For example, London-Manchester is 210 miles, and trains take only 2 hours.

> London-Manchester is 210 miles, and trains take only 2 hours

Yes and to further emphasise, this is not a high speed train (though it does use leaning trains making it faster than other lines, and has few stops. Also it's 2 hours 15 mins to be precise).

The proposed high speed train promises London-Manchester in ~1 hour.

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#47

Post by craigzucchini »

pseudolus wrote: post #2

The article might focus on the US but Canada shouldn't be overlooked for its own neglect of high-speed rail. The Toronto-Montreal corridor is a clear candidate for such a service which has been promised onwards of decades now.

Intercity travel in Canada is pretty dismal. I just took the train from Vancouver to Winnipeg for the first time, and from Fresno to Vancouver. Both were great experiences, with the Canada line being more social and more interesting, but with old trains and low priority on the tracks. Amtrak was fine, but like VIA took 30+ hours. Anyone taking the train is doing so because they prefer the experience. Typically the fares are not competitive with airline costs but it's a much more relaxing experience. Amtrak was far more affordable, and both trains allow more baggage if you have it.

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#48

Post by quickthrower2 »

rdl wrote: post #4

We have $2/gallon gas, from massive domestic production (and similar or lower prices for Jet-A). There are traffic congestion reasons for mass transit in cities, but we're pretty sorted for inter-city.

The article talks about a train that can go 200mph. That makes having people drive between cities seem a rather slow option. Plus you can get work done on a train. On a car it is not possible as a driver (other than phone calls) and pretty hard as a passenger.

I take your point about planes, but it's good to have more than one option and trains are good for middling distances, as there isn't all the need to check in, and they can start and stop closer to where you want to depart from and arrive.

Not to mention global warming :-)

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#49

Post by sixothree »

chrisseaton wrote: post #34
rdl wrote: post #4

We have $2/gallon gas, from massive domestic production (and similar or lower prices for Jet-A). There are traffic congestion reasons for mass transit in cities, but we're pretty sorted for inter-city.

When driving your car inter-city do you never think ‘if only I could be working, relaxing or sleeping with this time’ like in a train?

My commute is under 15 minutes each way and this is the only thing I think about during that time. I hate every minute of attention sucking driving.

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#50

Post by reindeerer »

rdl wrote: post #38
chrisseaton wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When driving your car inter-city do you never think ‘if only I could be working, relaxing or sleeping with this time’ like in a train?

Self driving will solve that; self driving is absolutely there already technically if we restricted it to special lanes/highways/etc, and probably could be 100% of interstates already too. There are some city center to nearby city center where rail would be nice, I agree. Most of the time when I'm going intercity it is by plane.

If you think you see general solution for "self driving" in next 20 years, i have a bridge to sell you
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