As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017) • Hacker News Board

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#31

Post by skywhopper » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 11:28 PM UTC

tomohawk wrote: post #5

High speed rail is a non-starter in the US, except for in certain regions. It's 2000 miles from Chicago to LA. Optimistically, if you had a train that averaged 200 miles an hour, it would still take 10 hours. That's just not competitive.

Who is suggesting building high speed rail from Chicago to LA? Why would you pick that particular example? It takes even longer to drive, and yet we have built multiple highway routes that connect LA and Chicago.

Instead of picking dumb examples to discredit the idea, how about looking at obviously good places: The entire East coast from Boston to Miami would be a good corridor to build in. Or start in Chicago, Dallas, Atlanta, and build links to cities between 200 and 500 miles away, where taking a high-speed train would be faster than either driving or flying, and extend from there. Eventually you will have a network that can take you from Chicago to LA, even if that's not the sweet spot for the type of transport. And honestly, a 10 hour train ride will take only 3-4 hours longer than the equivalent flight, once you factor in the huge overhead of time involved in flying.

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#32

Post by kiran-rao » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 11:28 PM UTC

_delirium wrote: post #23

rdl wrote: post #4

We have $2/gallon gas, from massive domestic production (and similar or lower prices for Jet-A). There are traffic congestion reasons for mass transit in cities, but we're pretty sorted for inter-city.

Traffic congestion is a pretty big issue for intercity too in some regions. Dallas-Houston is a mere 240 miles but often takes 5 hours to drive. Even in "light" traffic, 4 or so is common. You can do a lot better than that with even decently upgraded "legacy" rail, never mind a Shinkansen/TGV type system. For example, London-Manchester is 210 miles, and trains take only 2 hours.

Is there a solution to the last mile problem? It's every difficult to get to the final destination in sprawled suburban cities even if there's a direct center-center high speed rail line.

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#33

Post by beerlord » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 11:30 PM UTC

I would prefer to live in the US than any of these countries funding HSR. Electric cars and electric scooters are enough to get around the city and around the state, with flights for anything much longer than that. Autonomous vehicles available via subscription will make that even better.

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#34

Post by chrisseaton » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 11:30 PM UTC

rdl wrote: post #4

We have $2/gallon gas, from massive domestic production (and similar or lower prices for Jet-A). There are traffic congestion reasons for mass transit in cities, but we're pretty sorted for inter-city.

When driving your car inter-city do you never think ‘if only I could be working, relaxing or sleeping with this time’ like in a train?

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#35

Post by techsupporter » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 11:30 PM UTC

lunchbreak wrote: post #20

Wendover had a good video about China's rail network a while ago. [1] Major points are: 1. China is willing to build loves that aren't self sustainable - whereas the USA isn't (and the US doesn't factor in the social benefits) 2. China's airspace is mostly military - leading to only small flight corridors and therefore significant delays for flights - making trains more reliable 3. China is willing to make train line…

And, in general, where the government of China says a rail link goes is where it goes, with minimal planning and outside input from citizens and residents. In the U.S. and other Western-style governments, that's simply a non-starter.

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#36

Post by rdl » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 11:31 PM UTC

randomsearch wrote: post #16

rdl wrote: post #4

We have $2/gallon gas, from massive domestic production (and similar or lower prices for Jet-A). There are traffic congestion reasons for mass transit in cities, but we're pretty sorted for inter-city.

What about climate change?

Since cars have a 10-20 year lifespan, and electric is becoming superior, that will probably solve itself over the next 10-20 years (maybe they'll be EV powered by natural gas for a while, but that's still a win, and then the grid might get greener.)

Aviation fuel is the highest and best use of hydrocarbons (along with some chemical production), so we can deal with that last, after lots of power generation, demand reduction/efficiency, etc

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#37

Post by donatj » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 11:32 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #34

rdl wrote: post #4

We have $2/gallon gas, from massive domestic production (and similar or lower prices for Jet-A). There are traffic congestion reasons for mass transit in cities, but we're pretty sorted for inter-city.

When driving your car inter-city do you never think ‘if only I could be working, relaxing or sleeping with this time’ like in a train?

Not really because it takes me a fraction of the time. I can do those things far more comfortably when I get there.

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#38

Post by rdl » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 11:32 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #34

rdl wrote: post #4

We have $2/gallon gas, from massive domestic production (and similar or lower prices for Jet-A). There are traffic congestion reasons for mass transit in cities, but we're pretty sorted for inter-city.

When driving your car inter-city do you never think ‘if only I could be working, relaxing or sleeping with this time’ like in a train?

Self driving will solve that; self driving is absolutely there already technically if we restricted it to special lanes/highways/etc, and probably could be 100% of interstates already too.

There are some city center to nearby city center where rail would be nice, I agree.

Most of the time when I'm going intercity it is by plane.

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#39

Post by toufiqbarhamov » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 11:32 PM UTC

kiran-rao wrote: post #27

sputknick wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make it an overnight train with a real bed and the train sounds more appealing to me. Do a days work in Chicago, go to sleep, wake up, do a days work in LA.

Most people would rather take a 4.5hr flight

Sign me up for another vote in favor of a train ride... healthier and more comfortable, I can work, and I don’t have to deal with the TSA? Oh please god yes.

Re: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds new transport system (2017)

#40

Post by skywhopper » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 11:32 PM UTC

kiran-rao wrote: post #27

sputknick wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make it an overnight train with a real bed and the train sounds more appealing to me. Do a days work in Chicago, go to sleep, wake up, do a days work in LA.

Most people would rather take a 4.5hr flight

Add 2-3 hours for airport time wasted on both ends. But regardless of the time, I would much rather take a 10 hour train ride in comfortable, roomy seats, with all my luggage within reach, than crammed for five hours into an airplane seat literally as small as it can possibly be and that I can't get out of for half the time, especially if it's cheaper, which it probably would be.