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Deformities Alarm Scientists Racing to Rewrite Animal DNA

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Re: Deformities Alarm Scientists Racing to Rewrite Animal DNA

#101

Post by feistypharit »

cronix wrote: post #57

From my laymans POV, DNA is just a shit ton of variables in a very complex code that interact with each other. No single point just does a single thing. They all interact with each other. No different than changing a variable in one piece of code and having it create a bug in another that was previously working. For me, the real scary part is altering something, which inadvertently changes something else that isn't q…

Or the really scary part...if it not noticed for generations. For example, a reduction of IQ each generation or such.

Re: Deformities Alarm Scientists Racing to Rewrite Animal DNA

#102

Post by pskk »

dwaltrip wrote: post #94
smaddox wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GM foods are arguably no more dangerous than any massively engineered foods we've been eating for decades/centuries. Direct gene modification is more like using a scalpel rather than a 2x4. Still potentially dangerous, but far more precise.

It's more like editing the raw binary of an executable. It's only more precise if you understand the binary representation and the impact of changes. Otherwise it's incredibly imprecise, as you are just randomly flipping switches. In the case of genetics, we have a some understanding, but it is fairly limited. There is real potential for unexpected harm, given how much we don't know and the complexity of the code. Of…

I was trying to reason about CRISPR (and other editing methods) and try to get an analogy. It sounds a lot like an efficient hex editor. Sure you can edit parts of the "code" but we don't have any debuggers readily available. We can edit randomly and "run" the code, but as far as I know that's about it.

Re: Deformities Alarm Scientists Racing to Rewrite Animal DNA

#103

Post by Spooky23 »

traverseda wrote: post #90
Valmar wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GM foods are actually more dangerous, due to how GM works. Cross-breeding allows nature to combine things that fit together in all of the right places. And we just don't know how that even happens, or why. We don't understand nature's algorithm for DNA. No even the tip of the iceberg. Sure, nature isn't always correct, but does thing properly 99.999% of the time. And that's good enough. It is utterly incomparable to…

Why do you think cross breeding is safer then GM? Nature doesn't "know better", crossbreeding is just easier, and we only keep the results that work. Known-viable mammal hybrids tend to have poor health, with some obvious exceptions like mules. What you're seeing as "nature knowing what's best" is really just life being able to function with all kinds of random genes all over the place, because the core biochemical p…

Personally, I think the monetization of GMO is the problem more than the GM.

We have turned seeds into the equivalent of Gillette razors. A farmer buys patented seeds and the complimentary chemical to kill everything else.

The problem is that as farming has turned into a big dumb business, centuries of best practices with respect to land management are getting tossed. Farmers near where I grow up (who are left) don’t rotate and are being ground into bankruptcy as larger and larger entities dominate.

Re: Deformities Alarm Scientists Racing to Rewrite Animal DNA

#104

Post by albertgoeswoof »

jayalpha wrote: post #65
cronix wrote: post #57

From my laymans POV, DNA is just a shit ton of variables in a very complex code that interact with each other. No single point just does a single thing. They all interact with each other. No different than changing a variable in one piece of code and having it create a bug in another that was previously working. For me, the real scary part is altering something, which inadvertently changes something else that isn't q…

"No single point just does a single thing." Exactly this! And this is why GM foods are more dangerous than you might expect. Even if gene x does only x in organism A, there is no guarantee that gene x does only one thing or the same thing in organism B.

Except food doesn’t tend to harm you if it’s DNA is a little different, you digest it, it doesn’t modify your cells directly.

Re: Deformities Alarm Scientists Racing to Rewrite Animal DNA

#105

Post by zeta0134 »

feistypharit wrote: post #101
cronix wrote: post #57

From my laymans POV, DNA is just a shit ton of variables in a very complex code that interact with each other. No single point just does a single thing. They all interact with each other. No different than changing a variable in one piece of code and having it create a bug in another that was previously working. For me, the real scary part is altering something, which inadvertently changes something else that isn't q…

Or the really scary part...if it not noticed for generations. For example, a reduction of IQ each generation or such.

You know I originally thought this was an outlandish idea, but I have to remind myself that the processes that govern reproduction are themselves encoded within the DNA... If those processes are affected adversely, it may well take many generations to realize the effects, at which point for those individuals it is far too late to undo the damage.

Re: Deformities Alarm Scientists Racing to Rewrite Animal DNA

#106

Post by trophycase »

Yes, you're interfering with an extremely complex system. Are we really so naive to believe there is some exact 1:1 mapping of genes to traits, or even close to that? The fact I've heard things like "75% of DNA is useless" [1] seems like such a laughably naive statement I fear for the future of humanity.

[1] https://www.newscientist.com/article/2140926-at-least-75-per...

Re: Deformities Alarm Scientists Racing to Rewrite Animal DNA

#107

Post by projectileboy »

cronix wrote: post #57

From my laymans POV, DNA is just a shit ton of variables in a very complex code that interact with each other. No single point just does a single thing. They all interact with each other. No different than changing a variable in one piece of code and having it create a bug in another that was previously working. For me, the real scary part is altering something, which inadvertently changes something else that isn't q…

Exactly, exactly, exactly. The hubris of people thinking that they understand “this gene has this discrete effect” is astounding to me.

Re: Deformities Alarm Scientists Racing to Rewrite Animal DNA

#108

Post by akira2501 »

cronix wrote: post #57

From my laymans POV, DNA is just a shit ton of variables in a very complex code that interact with each other. No single point just does a single thing. They all interact with each other. No different than changing a variable in one piece of code and having it create a bug in another that was previously working. For me, the real scary part is altering something, which inadvertently changes something else that isn't q…

> From my laymans POV

It's just so much more complicated than that.

There is an additional huge array of variables like introns[1] and exons[2].

There's also the fact that not all base pairs encode even for genes, there's things like tRNA[3] and ribosomes[4] and the super amazing ribozymes[5].

Even after all that you have specific DNA binding factors[6] that along with the insane machinery[7] of our DNA regulate which base pairs are even exposed or copied into proteins or other cellular products.

Our genetic code is far more complex than just being "genetic codes." And we're still uncovering more layers of complexity and self-reference[8] the closer we are capable of looking.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intron

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exon

[3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_RNA

[4]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribosome

[5]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribozyme

[6]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA-binding_protein

[7]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_of_gene_expression

[8]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_world

Re: Deformities Alarm Scientists Racing to Rewrite Animal DNA

#109

Post by ejstronge »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #98

Quote: and they fear that mutated genes may spread unchecked as animals breed. Reminds me, similar thing happened with cattle. Some breeding bulls are used to impregnate tens of thousands of cows. I fail to remember the details but one of them 30-40 years ago had a genetic defect which contaminated a lot of the US stock. Found a link https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/10/the-dairy...

> Some breeding bulls are used to impregnate tens of thousands of cows. I fail to remember the details but one of them 30-40 years ago had a genetic defect which contaminated a lot of the US stock.

The other side to that story is that, while the breeding male's genes led to more spontaneous abortions (i.e., pregnancies that ended unexpectedly with calf loss), his daughters produced a lot more milk. From the same article:

> That’s a crazy number, but here’s an even crazier one: Despite the lethal mutation, using Chief’s sperm instead of an average bull’s still led to $30 billion dollars in increased milk production over the past 35 years. That’s how much a single bull could affect the industry.

Re: Deformities Alarm Scientists Racing to Rewrite Animal DNA

#110

Post by forgotmypw3 »

smaddox wrote: post #69
jayalpha wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"No single point just does a single thing." Exactly this! And this is why GM foods are more dangerous than you might expect. Even if gene x does only x in organism A, there is no guarantee that gene x does only one thing or the same thing in organism B.

GM foods are arguably no more dangerous than any massively engineered foods we've been eating for decades/centuries. Direct gene modification is more like using a scalpel rather than a 2x4. Still potentially dangerous, but far more precise.

The problem with GM foods is that the overwhelming majority of them are modified for resistance to poison chemicals, which are dangerous and haremful
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