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Number of babies born in Japan is the lowest since records began

japantimes.co.jp

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Re: Number of babies born in Japan is the lowest since records began

#31

Post by bayesian_horse »

jvln wrote: post #12
erpaa wrote: post #8

Good Idea actually. In Norway this issue was studied when it still was still politically possible. The probability of a baby becoming "marginaliserad" ie social fuck-up was 40% for single mothers, 20% for working mothers and "incredibly low" for full-time mothers. Babies have no absolute intrinsic value perse, this is why replacing natives with imported IQ-72 people does not work.

Funny. If imported ppl were IQ=72 they would not hijack Norway wellfear system :D

And the immigrants are indispensable in Norway, especially on the lower end of the pay scale. Wages have risen in Norway so much that Norwegians reduce their working hours on a big scale.

Re: Number of babies born in Japan is the lowest since records began

#32

Post by fortes »

polotics wrote: post #16
bunnycorn wrote: post #10

My country is even worse, 1.31. Japan looks like a kindergarten compared to Portugal.

Not the same thing: Portugal has a very healthy immigrant diaspora, some will go back.

Also lots of immigration from former colonies

Re: Number of babies born in Japan is the lowest since records began

#33

Post by perfmode »

InGodsName wrote: post #13
hrktb wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A whole slice of Japanese workers’ have life that squarely fall in “poor and dull”. The overworking cliche is only true to an extent, but still working poor people are plenty and their number rising could arguably be the main factor in the population demographic change. “I don’t make enough money to build a family” is a very prevalent sentiment looking around IRL and on social media, and seems to be corroborated by t…

I don't think it works like that. My overworked friends don't feel that helpless. They can eat out anytime, go to any concert they desire, buy any gadget. They feel secure and safe, they work hard only due to expectation and societal pressure but a few many are self driven And they don't think like ohhh we don't have capacity to have kids. They infact say they can have kids anytime they wish and they aren't missing o…

> They can eat out anytime, go to any concert they desire, buy any gadget. They feel secure and safe, they work hard only due to expectation and societal pressure but a few many are self driven

To what extent is the ability to consume a substantiated good and to what extent is it an illusory good?

Re: Number of babies born in Japan is the lowest since records began

#34

Post by smackay »

polotics wrote: post #16
bunnycorn wrote: post #10

My country is even worse, 1.31. Japan looks like a kindergarten compared to Portugal.

Not the same thing: Portugal has a very healthy immigrant diaspora, some will go back.

It's pretty standard for people to work abroad for a couple of decades then retire back home to their birthplace and open a pastelaria (cafe). Sadly, the market is pretty saturated and the net contribution to the economy is not that high.

From personal experience there are a number of professionals at early stages in their careers that return but quickly they realise that the opportunities are still rather limited and reverse their decision within a few years.

The situation is changing, but slowly.

Re: Number of babies born in Japan is the lowest since records began

#35

Post by bayesian_horse »

erpaa wrote: post #8

Good Idea actually. In Norway this issue was studied when it still was still politically possible. The probability of a baby becoming "marginaliserad" ie social fuck-up was 40% for single mothers, 20% for working mothers and "incredibly low" for full-time mothers. Babies have no absolute intrinsic value perse, this is why replacing natives with imported IQ-72 people does not work.

Confusing correlation with causation again, are we?

Another interpretation of those numbers is that single mothers often start off from a worse basis and the support isn't good enough.

And with low income immigrants, mothers are more likely to stay at home, given the relative lack of earning opportunities.

Re: Number of babies born in Japan is the lowest since records began

#36

Post by nonamechicken »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #29

Maybe this will make Japan warm up to the idea of more immigration. Just kidding, of course...

Actually, they seem to be warming up. There was a report a few months back that they want to bring 200k IT professionals from India. Not sure if they actually mean that though.

>Japan will open up its doors to about two lakh IT professionals from India, and issue green cards to settle down in Japan and support the country's rapidly expanding IT infrastructure, said Shigeki Maeda, Executive Vice President at Japan External Trade Organisation (JETRO), a government body, here on Thursday.

https://m.indiatimes.com/news/india/forget-america-japan-has...

Re: Number of babies born in Japan is the lowest since records began

#37

Post by marsrover »

Maybe I’m missing something or not thinking it through but why not pay people to have babies based on their status? It would cause more divide between classes but I feel like the ends might justify the means.

Great education and job? You get paid more to have a baby.

Homeless? You get paid nothing to have a baby.

Put the payment on a sliding scale. The lower the birth rate the higher the pay until you cross your desired threshold (1.8 in this case) at which point it starts going down again.

Edit: or just go the other way and tax people if they’re not having babies. Same principle as above but with taking money away.

Re: Number of babies born in Japan is the lowest since records began

#38

Post by madengr »

erpaa wrote: post #4

Recent social experiment (East/West Germany) proves one thing: people make babies, when their life is poor and dull. And on the global scale we can state that people make babies when they have no pension nor elderly care. And from nordic countries we can learn that free daycare is the baby killer number one. This is because you can make safely make babies "any time" and then you postpone it until too late. In America…

When Uncle Sam is the daddy, you can have as many as you want. 48% of births in the USA are paid by Medicaid.

Re: Number of babies born in Japan is the lowest since records began

#39

Post by fulafel »

Arnt wrote: post #27
eeZah7Ux wrote: post #21

In a world with 7.7 billion people, why are declining birth rates almost always described as problem?

If you stand with one foot in a bucket of ice cold water and one foot in a bucket of scalding hot water, you're not comfortable on average. The imbalance is a problem because of things like lone grandchildren inheriting the houses and wealth of four grandparents and others inheriting nothing. It's a problem because some areas have established fine education structures that cannot simply be shifted to another continen…

Japan has a progressive inheritance tax so the wealth distribution problem is mitigated somewhat.

Re: Number of babies born in Japan is the lowest since records began

#40

Post by lotsofpulp »

nonamechicken wrote: post #36
bayesian_horse wrote: post #29

Maybe this will make Japan warm up to the idea of more immigration. Just kidding, of course...

Actually, they seem to be warming up. There was a report a few months back that they want to bring 200k IT professionals from India. Not sure if they actually mean that though. >Japan will open up its doors to about two lakh IT professionals from India, and issue green cards to settle down in Japan and support the country's rapidly expanding IT infrastructure, said Shigeki Maeda, Executive Vice President at Japan Ext…

Having had experience in both cultures, I can’t imagine two more opposite cultures. One is extremely deferential to others, the other you have to think about yourself first otherwise you won’t get anywhere. At least in public interactions.
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