Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Indian government to intercept, monitor, and decrypt citizens’ computers

venturebeat.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 170 posts

Re: Indian government to intercept, monitor, and decrypt citizens’ computers

#101

Post by anigbrowl »

dgzl wrote: post #56
vkou wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The success of fighting it only works as well as 'where does public opinion on the issue currently lie'. The constitutionality of a law is a political red herring. My favorite example of this is gay marriage. All the way between 1776 and 2015 it was illegal - yet somehow, magically, in 2015, banning it became unconstitutional. Did the Constitution change in 2015, without us noticing? Did the lawyers advocating for it…

I always found it weird how people starting thinking gay marriage should be legal, when in fact it should just be protected under the first amendment all along. It's almost like people don't understand their first amendment rights, and never thought to apply it to gay marriage.

You can say whatever you like but asserting marriage rights required someone else who held power of some sort (which could be as simple as saying who could or could not visit a dying person in hospital or any of many other circumstances) to agree with you.

Re: Indian government to intercept, monitor, and decrypt citizens’ computers

#102

Post by navait »

screye wrote: post #67
sunasra wrote: post #59

First, it was Aadhaar and now this. Somehow Indian Govt wants to track every citizen and build their dictatorship.

> build their dictatorship. I highly doubt any Indian government wants or even thinks they can do this. India in all its diversity, consists of a huge number of separate factions. The Government only works due to a mutual compromise from enough factions to form a coalition. Also, the Indian judiciary and parliament hold genuine power and exercise it too. It is nearly impossible for a single person to gain enough mome…

While dictatorship is obviously absurd, what about Indira Gandhi and the Emergency?

Re: Indian government to intercept, monitor, and decrypt citizens’ computers

#103

Post by LinuxBender »

This will be an unpopular opinion, but I personally like highly oppressive and intrusive governments trying to impose their will on the internet and technology.

Usually when this happens, it results in substantial innovation around privacy, security and awareness. Such movements will ultimately force many people underground and into various forms of VPN's, non standard operating systems and custom hardware.

To be clear, I am not condoning India's actions and I have no doubt many people will be hurt by this. I am merely pointing out that there will also be many unintended consequences and I personally believe that their government will ultimately lose more trust, control and visibility than they gain.

Re: Indian government to intercept, monitor, and decrypt citizens’ computers

#104

Post by dgzl »

vxxzy wrote: post #83
dgzl wrote: post #37

And here is the natural born right to privacy that Americans have, as well as the rest of the world in my own opinion: Bill of Rights, amendment 4: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the…

We need to pay attention to the phrase "particularly describing the place to be searched". We need a way to define 'location' within a digital landscape. One possibility is to add a second dimension to the definition. An example: "location and time of storage". I'd like to see us push (as a society) that searches of "information" must notate the very "disk sector"/"network segment"/"geographic point to within 5ft" up…

I would consider digital files to be akin to "papers and effects", and would be subject to the same discretion under a warrant. (I.e. the evidence we're looking for is specifically in this app's chat log from [reasonable date] to [reasonable date])

Re: Indian government to intercept, monitor, and decrypt citizens’ computers

#105

Post by dgzl »

mtw wrote: post #100
dgzl wrote: post #37

And here is the natural born right to privacy that Americans have, as well as the rest of the world in my own opinion: Bill of Rights, amendment 4: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the…

That's a nice ideal, but in practice, isn't the NSA tracking cell phones and digital chatter? I'm pretty sure if you mention "dhijad", "Bomb", and "US president" with one of your buddy, you'll be added to a list

Many constitutionalists consider three-letter government agencies to have constitution-violating powers that produced evidence that should otherwise be consider null and void by courts.

Re: Indian government to intercept, monitor, and decrypt citizens’ computers

#106

Post by joejerryronnie »

mtw wrote: post #100
dgzl wrote: post #37

And here is the natural born right to privacy that Americans have, as well as the rest of the world in my own opinion: Bill of Rights, amendment 4: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the…

That's a nice ideal, but in practice, isn't the NSA tracking cell phones and digital chatter? I'm pretty sure if you mention "dhijad", "Bomb", and "US president" with one of your buddy, you'll be added to a list

You've just been added

Re: Indian government to intercept, monitor, and decrypt citizens’ computers

#107

Post by dgzl »

AndrewGaspar wrote: post #79
dgzl wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always found it weird how people starting thinking gay marriage should be legal, when in fact it should just be protected under the first amendment all along. It's almost like people don't understand their first amendment rights, and never thought to apply it to gay marriage.

Eh, that's a pretty simplistic assessment. It wasn't the ability to say you were married that was under contention, as I understand it. It was whether homosexual couples should be conferred all the same privileges as heterosexual couples. Those privileges don't really fit under a "free speech" view.

> that's a pretty simplistic assessment

The bill of Rights was written simplistic for a reason, my friend. So regular folk could understand their rights without a lawyer.

This was my assessment, in steps:

1. Marriage exists because it's a religious ceremony for Christians.

2. The government got involved and gives religious marriage authorization, certification, and tax discounts. (unconstitutionally, see amendment one: government can make no law regarding religion or preventing The practice)

3. Any person can follow any religion in America (as long as it doesn't violate other human's rights.)

4. Create a new religion that allows gay marriage.

5. ???

6. Profit.

Allowing people to marry should and is protected under the first amendment. The Bill of Rights wasn't written in short, easy descriptions so that we could conflate meaning and exclude people of their rights. The truth is exactly opposite of that!

Re: Indian government to intercept, monitor, and decrypt citizens’ computers

#108

Post by dgzl »

vkou wrote: post #58
dgzl wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always found it weird how people starting thinking gay marriage should be legal, when in fact it should just be protected under the first amendment all along. It's almost like people don't understand their first amendment rights, and never thought to apply it to gay marriage.

I'm glad we figured it out in only 240 years! But, what happens if we figure out that the rights we currently enjoy are, in fact, not protected by the constitution? This hammer swings both ways. There's a big, nasty, vaguely-defined "unreasonable" word in "unreasonable search and seizure." Who defines what is "unreasonable"? And what are the odds that their definition will agree with what HN thinks is "unreasonable"?…

Your post brings up some good points:

Precedent is important. Also, being aware of your rights and theirs precedents in history is important.

The Constitution is entirely written in a manner that grants citizens rights and restrains government power. Someday we might get so ignorant that the government decides pulling a fast one on citizens is possible, therefore they try. (See Patriot Act, NDAA,. etc.)

Re: Indian government to intercept, monitor, and decrypt citizens’ computers

#109

Post by dgzl »

vkou wrote: post #54
saas_sam wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And when those phenomena are fought, it is on the basis of the Constitution.

The success of fighting it only works as well as 'where does public opinion on the issue currently lie'. The constitutionality of a law is a political red herring. My favorite example of this is gay marriage. All the way between 1776 and 2015 it was illegal - yet somehow, magically, in 2015, banning it became unconstitutional. Did the Constitution change in 2015, without us noticing? Did the lawyers advocating for it…

Then I ask, why are we having such a tough time defending against illegal digital collection and searching by the government? Doesn't it seem like people care about their privacy from government? If public opinion isn't allowing our 4th amendment to be valued, then what are we doing wrong? How can we show the government that we do indeed want them to stop violating our privacy?

Do we have to riot in the streets? I thought that was the entire point of the American Revolution! We already fought for our rights, and yet people try telling me that we're losing them because we're not fighting anymore. Apparently it's entirely acceptable that when we become complacent, that the government can steamroll us for our ignorance?

Re: Indian government to intercept, monitor, and decrypt citizens’ computers

#110

Post by pkd »

navait wrote: post #102
screye wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> build their dictatorship. I highly doubt any Indian government wants or even thinks they can do this. India in all its diversity, consists of a huge number of separate factions. The Government only works due to a mutual compromise from enough factions to form a coalition. Also, the Indian judiciary and parliament hold genuine power and exercise it too. It is nearly impossible for a single person to gain enough mome…

While dictatorship is obviously absurd, what about Indira Gandhi and the Emergency?

Indira Gandhi's shenanigans led to the the establishment of the Basic Structure Doctrine of the Indian constitution, which I hope will prevent anybody else from exploiting the same loopholes
Post reply on HN