How ‘Baldur’s Gate’ Saved the Computer RPG • Hacker News Board

Re: How ‘Baldur’s Gate’ Saved the Computer RPG

#101

Post by guiltygatorade » Fri, Dec 21, 2018, 5:59 PM UTC

vegardx wrote: post #92

Completely unrelated, but... The story was ofte a little hard to follow when I was a kid, but using a dictionary I was able to not just understand and progress throughout the game, but I also learned a lot of English in the process. It all started with Transport Tycoon Deluxe, then Age of Empires. But it was with Baldur's Gate things really started to make sense. Because of these games I was reading and sort of speak…

I learned English by trying to figure out how to navigate menus in Warlords II and Castles II.

I played Baldur's Gate and barely understood the plot. A few years later, I eventually got to Planescape: Torment and actually managed to understand it.

If you love TTD, you should check out http://www.openttd.org/en/ if you haven't already.

Re: How ‘Baldur’s Gate’ Saved the Computer RPG

#102

Post by lordnacho » Fri, Dec 21, 2018, 6:02 PM UTC

When I think about a hard software project, this game is the what I think of every time.

It is like it says in the article: you're not just making a movie, you're inventing the camera.

By the sound of it they went right from DirectX to build the engine, a huge task in itself, and then writing the story with the engine. And of course when you try to write the upper layer, you're going to discover you forgot something in the lower layer. Often something bad that makes you have to re-architect.

In my own line of work it there's also layers like exchange integrations and strategies, but you're still reasonably close in terms of domains of thinking. With games you're both performance optimizing c++ code and trying to tell a compelling story at the same time.

And you can't skip the artistic side. You have to have a proper story. The characters have to have correct looking clothes and weapons. NPCs need to have the right speech coded, and they need to drop the right loot for the plot to work. Maps have to seem expansive yet still seem coherent to the atmosphere.

Re: How ‘Baldur’s Gate’ Saved the Computer RPG

#103

Post by guiltygatorade » Fri, Dec 21, 2018, 6:03 PM UTC

ryanjodonnell wrote: post #86

Has anyone that played BG also played Dragon Age Trilogy? Is it a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate? I loved BG1/BG2 in middleschool/highschool.

The first Dragon Age is arguably a spiritual successor.

Dragon Age II was largely panned by Bioware fans as it got a lot more action oriented and less RPG/choice driven.

Dragon Age: Inquisition is basically unrecognizable to Baldur's Gate days, as mechanically it's more similar to Mass Effect 2 than old time RPGs. That game was 90% pulp fantasy open world quest completer with decent combat/skill syngergy. But the last 10% uncovered some story bits that really made me go "wow I want to know more".

Looks like the sequel is in the works.

Re: How ‘Baldur’s Gate’ Saved the Computer RPG

#104

Post by vegardx » Fri, Dec 21, 2018, 6:03 PM UTC

guiltygatorade wrote: post #101

vegardx wrote: post #92

Completely unrelated, but... The story was ofte a little hard to follow when I was a kid, but using a dictionary I was able to not just understand and progress throughout the game, but I also learned a lot of English in the process. It all started with Transport Tycoon Deluxe, then Age of Empires. But it was with Baldur's Gate things really started to make sense. Because of these games I was reading and sort of speak…

I learned English by trying to figure out how to navigate menus in Warlords II and Castles II. I played Baldur's Gate and barely understood the plot. A few years later, I eventually got to Planescape: Torment and actually managed to understand it. If you love TTD, you should check out http://www.openttd.org/en/ if you haven't already.

OpenTTD is amazing. A group of friends of mine often have online games over the Christmas holidays. The only time everyone are able to play at the same time.

I have also been playing a little CorsixTH, the open source reimplementation of Theme Hospital. Theme Hospital came with Swedish translations, which are close enough to Norwegian that I was able to understand it. No dictionary needed!

Re: How ‘Baldur’s Gate’ Saved the Computer RPG

#105

Post by guiltygatorade » Fri, Dec 21, 2018, 6:08 PM UTC

s_trumpet wrote: post #76

ReptileMan wrote: post #27

Nope. It just slowed the decline. Good RPGs with high production values are extremely rare. We have witchers, divinity and pillar/tides(maybe) . Dragon age 1 was the last true Bioware RPG... Fallouts lack stories (except new vegas which mostly lacks sequesls).

I highly recommend Underrail - while the graphics are a bit simplistic (it was made entirely by a Ukrainian programmer/artist), it's the closest we've got to a modern Fallout 1/2. I'm also looking forward to Obsidian's new game The Outer Worlds, seems like New Vegas IN SPACE.

I played Underrail a while back but didn't get too far. I do want to go through it fully at some point. Is it worthwhile? I also heard the developer is working on an expansion pack of some sort.

Speaking of modern Fallout 1/2, this game just came out:

https://atomrpg.com/

I'm kind of waiting for the initial round of reviews / reactions before deciding on whether to give it a shot.

Re: How ‘Baldur’s Gate’ Saved the Computer RPG

#106

Post by tomc1985 » Fri, Dec 21, 2018, 6:10 PM UTC

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #98

OK, so in 1995 there were few computer RPGs. True. In fact I distinctly remember myself at that time, as a huge CRPG fan, thinking that they were bad times for PC RPGs, and hoping for better times. But 1996 was the year of The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall, one of the best RPGs of all time (IMO, way better than Baldur's) that would later continue into a saga that is still top notch today. In 1997, Fallout came out. I'…

I do remember feeling of being in something of RPG drought when Baldur's Gate came along. At least I believe that was the sentiment expressed by PC Games magazine, which I was reading pretty heavily at the time.

I don't think ES or Fallout were on my radar at that time but you're the first person I've heard with very positive opinions of Daggerfall; most of the ES nostalgics seem to pine for Morrowind.

Baldur's Gate had the D&D license, though, and that gave it a lot of weight and staying power for people who weren't already into CRPGs. I think it also left a much larger impact than any of the games you've mentioned save maybe Fallout II. Part of the draw for me were those D&D rules; I was pretty heavy into tabletop RPGs at the time.

Re: How ‘Baldur’s Gate’ Saved the Computer RPG

#107

Post by tdehart » Fri, Dec 21, 2018, 6:15 PM UTC

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #98

OK, so in 1995 there were few computer RPGs. True. In fact I distinctly remember myself at that time, as a huge CRPG fan, thinking that they were bad times for PC RPGs, and hoping for better times. But 1996 was the year of The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall, one of the best RPGs of all time (IMO, way better than Baldur's) that would later continue into a saga that is still top notch today. In 1997, Fallout came out. I'…

There was also Diablo 1 released at the end of 1996. It was a great time for RPGs.

Re: How ‘Baldur’s Gate’ Saved the Computer RPG

#108

Post by the_af » Fri, Dec 21, 2018, 6:19 PM UTC

PavlovsCat wrote: post #91

the_af wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hate for the new Baldur's Gate seems misplaced, too. If you check the reviews on GOG and elsewhere, it seems to be thinly disguised "GamerGate" anger :/ (with some genuine complaints, to be fair)

I read 4 pages of comments on GOG and found not one that matches your description, at all. On page 2 I saw this: > After seeing how the devs treat customers I'd highly recommend a pass on this and the expansions. There are legitimate issues with the game, but anyone pointing out issues with multiplayer, buggy UI tweaks, game crashing, characters and saved games being corrupted are being called transphobes and having…

Well, I haven't re-read the thread now, so maybe it has changed (and maybe some of the flamebait was indeed deleted). Last I checked there were tons of reviews complaining about "politics" and "SJWs". If I remember correctly, there was a concerted effort to bring the review ratings down because of this.

Re: How ‘Baldur’s Gate’ Saved the Computer RPG

#109

Post by doitLP » Fri, Dec 21, 2018, 6:20 PM UTC

fuball63 wrote: post #84

Baldur's Gate was really difficult as a kid. Without fully understanding how the stat system worked or the pause/play combat, my siblings and I really struggled with it. What we would do to overcome the difficulty was ramp our characters level when starting the game. In Candlekeep Inn, we would buy as many darts as we could afford, and throw them at the sorcerer in the lobby. Before he could retaliate, we would run u…

You mean your foster father Gorian? For shame!

Re: How ‘Baldur’s Gate’ Saved the Computer RPG

#110

Post by muro » Fri, Dec 21, 2018, 6:23 PM UTC

tomc1985 wrote: post #106

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #98

OK, so in 1995 there were few computer RPGs. True. In fact I distinctly remember myself at that time, as a huge CRPG fan, thinking that they were bad times for PC RPGs, and hoping for better times. But 1996 was the year of The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall, one of the best RPGs of all time (IMO, way better than Baldur's) that would later continue into a saga that is still top notch today. In 1997, Fallout came out. I'…

I do remember feeling of being in something of RPG drought when Baldur's Gate came along. At least I believe that was the sentiment expressed by PC Games magazine, which I was reading pretty heavily at the time. I don't think ES or Fallout were on my radar at that time but you're the first person I've heard with very positive opinions of Daggerfall; most of the ES nostalgics seem to pine for Morrowind. Baldur's Gate…

Daggerfall was a buggy mess or randomly generated, yet still always the same dungeons. No reason whatsoever to walk in the always-same, never ending landscape. The plot was good, the scale huge.

Morrowind fixed all of that - much smaller scale, less generated stuff, excellent plot, few (er) bugs - it was actually possible to finish the game. Landscape with purpose, it was actually interesting to walk and explore.