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Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

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Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#381

Post by tonylemesmer »

kurtisc wrote: post #380
tonylemesmer wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But even with typed instead of spoken commands, wouldn't the natural language processing still done in the cloud? Admittedly, typed instructions instead of recorded sounds is less intrusive but still intrusive because it requires the internet, not processed locally.

If it was implemented using something like hitting super/the Chromebook search button and then typing your intentions, it would be a more deliberate choice to send the data than it is using a voice assistant which is constantly recording to look out for the keyword.

yes - a physical interlock would be infinitely preferable.

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#382

Post by lucideer »

lisper wrote: post #207
madrox wrote: post #104

I've never seen a demographic breakdown of HN, but I'm 37 years old. I'm definitely not the oldest guy here, but I see history repeat itself regularly. I remember when people used location tracking as a reason to not own a cell phone. I'm talking about flip phones, mind you, not even iPhones with GPS receivers. I recall the bulk of complaints in that vein died down around the time Google Maps for phones came out. If…

There's a big difference: having a GPS in my phone means I never have to worry about buying or carrying a map with me ever again, at the cost of potentially revealing my location to someone who I'd rather not know it. Having a voice assistant means I don't have to spend a few seconds typing, at the cost of having everything I say potentially overheard by someone who I'd rather didn't hear it. By my quality metric, th…

As others have said here, you're overplaying one and underplaying the other:

1. having a map on your phone doesn't necessitate gps; only automatically locating yourself on that map does, which is an added convenience as opposed to the core functionality.

2. even the core functionality of a map—navigation—is a rarer one than the plethora of things one can connect voice control to

3. apart from taxi integration, probably the most common multiplier of the applicability of gps is voice: "find restaurants near me", etc.

In fairness, even with the above, your comparison is probably still correct: gps represents a bigger value add relative to the trade-off, but I just think they're much much closer than you make out.

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#383

Post by gpvos »

krageon wrote: post #374
gpvos wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I'm in my late 40s and I avoid Google Maps like the plague. Osmand or other off-line navigation apps are really easy to use nowadays. Also, I'm still not happy that my phone is leaking my location through GSM.

Easy to use, but heavy if you travel a lot (the maps are big). Also it doesn't offer anything in the way of alternative routing for traffic jams/road repair proactively (so you don't spend an hour driving back or looping instead of taking a route that is maybe 10m slower from the get go). There are many smaller examples that make Osmand not really something I would recommend to anyone else, even though it is what I u…

True, I guess. An hour is a lot though; aren't road repairs signposted in a reasonable way where you live? (I.e., using actual road signs, not navigation.) Actually, in the Netherlands I've found some longer-term road works listed in OSM. I don't use navigation, or even drive a car, often enough to compare with Google Maps.

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#384

Post by NateEag »

Izkata wrote: post #280
summadat wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, can I see your credit card statements for the last 5 years? Can I listen to all of your phone conversations? Can I watch you shower and use the bathroom? I mean, you sound like an average person with nothing to hide...../s

> Can I watch you shower and use the bathroom? This approaches one thing I always wonder when this comes up: Are people with that argument really okay with their co-workers finding out what porn they watch and when they watch it? It's perhaps a little extreme, but I can totally see it becoming a possibility due to large leaks like this.

You are ignoring the possibility that people saying that don't watch porn. I don't.

Regardless, I disagree with the argument, as things you don't need to hide now can become things you wish you had hidden later (think of Jewish people in Germany in the 1920s whose religion and ethnicity were obvious).

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#385

Post by grkvlt »

iforgotpassword wrote: post #361
jancsika wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having a voice assistant means I don't have to spend a few seconds typing, at the cost of having everything I say potentially overheard by someone who I'd rather didn't hear it. You're underplaying it in order to artificially inflate your mileage. Having a voice assistant means not having to learn to change application contexts inside an operating system follwed by a few seconds typing. You are ignoring the hundred…

> Having a voice assistant means not having to learn to change application contexts inside an operating system follwed by a few seconds typing. You are ignoring the hundreds/thousands of hours you've spent learning which software is appropriate for which contexts. Not to mention the latency of instantiating them, or possibly even installing them, migrating data between them, etc. I can type everything I'd issue as a…

How do you manage to do the typing when you're in the bath?or stepping out of the shower? or when you've left your laptop in another room? or if someone else is using your laptop for something important? The point is not that the voice commands are easy to learn or remember, it's that you have with you at all times (even if entirely naked, hey it's your house) the equipment needed to issue these commands...

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#386

Post by lkrubner »

lsc wrote: post #351
jancsika wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having a voice assistant means I don't have to spend a few seconds typing, at the cost of having everything I say potentially overheard by someone who I'd rather didn't hear it. You're underplaying it in order to artificially inflate your mileage. Having a voice assistant means not having to learn to change application contexts inside an operating system follwed by a few seconds typing. You are ignoring the hundred…

>Having a voice assistant means not having to learn to change application contexts inside an operating system follwed by a few seconds typing. You are ignoring the hundreds/thousands of hours you've spent learning which software is appropriate for which contexts. Not to mention the latency of instantiating them, or possibly even installing them, migrating data between them, etc. So, it's interesting. I resisted the i…

About this:

"I mean, essentially it's a command line interface with a wonky input method, no?"

This is precisely the feedback we got from salespeople, when we were working on a Natural Language Programming interface for Salesforce. Initially, I got angry and denied the comparison. But after several people made the same comparison, I came to appreciate how true it was. Unless NLP is perfect, it is really just a Command Line Interface with an awkward input device. I talk about this a little towards the end of this story:

https://www.amazon.com/Destroy-Tech-Startup-Easy-Steps/dp/09...

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#387

Post by grkvlt »

summadat wrote: post #257
matte_black wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is that for most people avoiding this kind of tech and platforms is unlikely to have any kind of payoff for them. Life is too short. Most peoples lives are as simple as going to school and work, raising a family, taking vacations, paying bills, and then passing away. There will never be a moment where they can say “ Yes! My avoidance of Facebook and Alexa for all my life has finally paid off! Hahaha! ” The…

Ok, can I see your credit card statements for the last 5 years? Can I listen to all of your phone conversations? Can I watch you shower and use the bathroom? I mean, you sound like an average person with nothing to hide...../s

Sure. The only condition is that you don't share the information in public, on pain of massive fines and imprisonment - you can only use it to improve your internal business processes.

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#388

Post by _Codemonkeyism »

After two years of Alexa it will move out 2019.

Experience was underwhelming, especially play lists from Spotify were hit and miss, one day no problem, the next day sometimes an excuse, sometimes just a beep, sometimes silence. I would need to turn on the light by myself in the future though.

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#389

Post by llampx »

closetohome wrote: post #198
rchaud wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am in my 30s too, and I remember reading articles saying that DHS had hundreds of thousands of hours of wiretapped conversations they would never get to because they all needed to be manually reviewed. When the company selling a suspiciously cheap home speaker ('stocking stuffer') is the same company that boasts of having infinitely scalable computing ability and is the only cloud vendor that meets the Pentagon's p…

Just so I'm clear here, you're proposing a conspiracy theory where Amazon, the DHS, and The Pentagon are in collusion to collect and transcribe audio from Amazon Echos -- in such a way that none of the many people who have hacked and extensively reverse-engineered them would be able to tell? I can't find any holes in that theory.

If you've been following the news for the past few months or years, you should know that this conspiracy theory has a higher chance of being true than not.

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#390

Post by llampx »

snibsss wrote: post #326
madrox wrote: post #104

I've never seen a demographic breakdown of HN, but I'm 37 years old. I'm definitely not the oldest guy here, but I see history repeat itself regularly. I remember when people used location tracking as a reason to not own a cell phone. I'm talking about flip phones, mind you, not even iPhones with GPS receivers. I recall the bulk of complaints in that vein died down around the time Google Maps for phones came out. If…

Why the fuck do they need to be networked? Don't give me some bullshit answer about, "Oh, search, oh the web..." And don't give me that bullshit about, "Oh, but natural language processing needs computational power that won't fit in your pocket." I only need the internet for a few specific things. The things I could use a voice interface aren't hard, and don't always involve the internet.

These speakers could well be built without the ability to spy on you. However they aren't, and this should tell you all about Google and Amazon's motivations. Also, they could easily charge 2x or 3x the price they currently do and still find plenty of takers. The fact that they chose to sell it as a loss-leader is also telling.
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