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Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

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Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#271
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, by your definition of "recording", a laptop contains several I/O devices that "record" my input, not just webcam and microphone, but keyboard as well. I guess I should just shrug at the revelation that it comes with a keylogger. Because hey, if I didn't want my written thoughts to be recorded, why did I buy a memory-enabled Internet-connected device to do actually that?

Don't put words into my mouth, I never said that. I even used the example of a phone recording you being bad because that wasn't the primary purpose of the device when bought. That argument obviously applies to laptops for the same reason. But if you as a consumer decide to buy a device who's literal only purpose is to record you, then you don't also get to cry out about it recording you. That's the very definition o…

The primary purpose of an Efho device is not to record you. You brought up a silly argument.

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) It's always listening for a keyword, and then it starts recording. It's a voice interface for a computer. 2) Your phone is doing the same thing except for it follows you around everywhere you go and records your map location, what apps you use, who you are talking to and what your web searches are. Your phone isn't recording just what you say...its recording what you do and where you do it and when you do it. It's…

> Literally every article about home assistants brings out a number of people who continue to say how they can't understand how people could have this in their homes. It feels weird to feel out of touch. I’ve been a computer/technology enthusiast my whole life, and used to proudly early-adopt all sorts of crazy gadgetry. But the older I get, the fewer things coming out of Silicon Valley appeal to me, and the less I u…

"Alexa, play [almost any recorded music ever]" is pretty cool.*

* You have to have Amazon Music Unlimited which costs from $4.99 to $9.99 a month.

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#273
post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Getting a voice assistant was life-changing for me Can you expand on that? In what way?

Compare the workflows for leaving a reminder or note. Before: * Find phone/computer * Unlock * Locate self in interface and navigate to application selector * Invoke note-taking or reminder app * Type in note or reminder * Navigate through tagging/scheduling interface * Commit note/reminder Or: * Locate notebook * Locate writing utensil * Open notebook to current page * Write note * Remember to check notebook every t…

> * Find phone/computer * Unlock * Locate self in interface and navigate to application selector * Invoke note-taking or reminder app * Type in note or reminder * Navigate through tagging/scheduling interface * Commit note/reminder

This is just bad UI. Voice assistants and search have been used to paper over a serious decline in UX over the past decade or two. PDAs from the late 90s had much better note taking workflows.

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#274
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You totally underestimate the utility. Getting a voice assistant was life-changing for me. GPS comes nowhere close.

> Getting a voice assistant was life-changing for me Can you expand on that? In what way?

For people that are already into the IoT space, I think it's a no-brainer. I have smart bulbs (Lifx). They look great but have little to no support for physical switches, and the app works OK until you want to have two phones controlling them. Suffice to say, voice control has made the experience 10x better especially for guests. Now, we also have a Roomba and some other smart things. Rather than get a new app for everything, it's all controlled by once interface.

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#275
post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Getting a voice assistant was life-changing for me Can you expand on that? In what way?

Compare the workflows for leaving a reminder or note. Before: * Find phone/computer * Unlock * Locate self in interface and navigate to application selector * Invoke note-taking or reminder app * Type in note or reminder * Navigate through tagging/scheduling interface * Commit note/reminder Or: * Locate notebook * Locate writing utensil * Open notebook to current page * Write note * Remember to check notebook every t…

I just walk over to my fridge and write it down with the dry-erase marker stuck to it. No issues with voice recognition misunderstanding, and it's trivial to do something more complicated like add to a specific list.

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Credulous" is the boring existing term, I think. I might enjoy "barnummark" or "candidable." Some might use the term "optimist" in this sense. Whether it's fair or unfair to call them cynics is left as an exercise for the reader.

None of those words have the same bite, in that they don't imply the belief is unfounded and probably wrong.

Maybe "naive belief"? Almost rhymes, too, so easy to say/remember.

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#277
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am in my 30s too, and I remember reading articles saying that DHS had hundreds of thousands of hours of wiretapped conversations they would never get to because they all needed to be manually reviewed. When the company selling a suspiciously cheap home speaker ('stocking stuffer') is the same company that boasts of having infinitely scalable computing ability and is the only cloud vendor that meets the Pentagon's p…

Just so I'm clear here, you're proposing a conspiracy theory where Amazon, the DHS, and The Pentagon are in collusion to collect and transcribe audio from Amazon Echos -- in such a way that none of the many people who have hacked and extensively reverse-engineered them would be able to tell? I can't find any holes in that theory.

It wouldn't have to be perfectly covert. Also it wouldn't have to be purposeful, spooky collusion between private and public sector from the start. That's an unfair assumption and a bit of a straw-man. What's going to happen is Amazon and others will develop methods to collect ambient data at all times and sift through it efficiently for marketing info--come on, you know for a fact that they are doing that--and eventually there will be another fucking patriot act, some awful legislation that is blatantly unconstitutional but nobody cares and brows are furrowed and think-pieces are typed up but the law goes through regardless--the feds will eventually subpoena the massive cache of data Amazon owns, they'll make a bit of a show of resisting for PR's sake, but eventually law enforcement will get it. And maybe they'll use it to solve a legit case, they probably really will. But forever after that tool will be in the hands of whatever regime or agenda reaches office. It's not ridiculous and people shouldn't dismiss it so easily.

Infosec conspiracy theories are different from normal conspiracy theories because while normal ones are pretty much always bullshit, infosec paranoia is always proven sensible on a long enough timeline. Yes, there will be an incident sometime soon where law enforcement builds a case through evidence gathered with a virtual assistant using AI or something to sift through all that audio. The constitutionality of this evidence-gathering will be superficially questioned but it'll end up getting admitted anyways, or used sneakily via parallel construction techniques. Assuming it hasn't already happened.

They've already done it with phones. Providers and manufacturers used to resist, but after lots of murky "national security" legislation they can't really refuse anymore. Ever read about how the stingray was first discovered, and that law enforcement was sneakily using it extra-legally to build cases? Now it's pretty common knowledge that your phone can be tricked by a fake cell tower and there's nothing you can really do. But does anyone give a single shit? Nah. It's normalized. Every successive technology that is developed and added to the panopticon toolkit will make us more and more accustomed to it. There's been enough overreaches and abuses of technology already that you shouldn't have this blase attitude about it. But that's not how people really work.

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#278
post #104

I've never seen a demographic breakdown of HN, but I'm 37 years old. I'm definitely not the oldest guy here, but I see history repeat itself regularly. I remember when people used location tracking as a reason to not own a cell phone. I'm talking about flip phones, mind you, not even iPhones with GPS receivers. I recall the bulk of complaints in that vein died down around the time Google Maps for phones came out. If…

I'm 56. You're not the oldest one here.

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#279
post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't put words into my mouth, I never said that. I even used the example of a phone recording you being bad because that wasn't the primary purpose of the device when bought. That argument obviously applies to laptops for the same reason. But if you as a consumer decide to buy a device who's literal only purpose is to record you, then you don't also get to cry out about it recording you. That's the very definition o…

The primary purpose of an Efho device is not to record you. You brought up a silly argument.

It has 7 microphones and its only purpose is to record you, then respond to your request. That's literally the only thing the device is made to do.

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is that for most people avoiding this kind of tech and platforms is unlikely to have any kind of payoff for them. Life is too short. Most peoples lives are as simple as going to school and work, raising a family, taking vacations, paying bills, and then passing away. There will never be a moment where they can say “ Yes! My avoidance of Facebook and Alexa for all my life has finally paid off! Hahaha! ” The…

Ok, can I see your credit card statements for the last 5 years? Can I listen to all of your phone conversations? Can I watch you shower and use the bathroom? I mean, you sound like an average person with nothing to hide...../s

> Can I watch you shower and use the bathroom?

This approaches one thing I always wonder when this comes up: Are people with that argument really okay with their co-workers finding out what porn they watch and when they watch it?

It's perhaps a little extreme, but I can totally see it becoming a possibility due to large leaks like this.

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