Tell HN: Tech Recruiters have no clue

However, you do find some gems. When I find them, I keep them updated at ALL times about where I'm at what my situation is. I even have a few friended on FB (which is a big deal for me) because they're friends now.

They will always call me when something I'm a really good fit for comes up just to see if anything has changed since the last time we talked. They trust you because you make them look good and in return you get "first dibs" on really good positions.

This statement acurately describes 95% of my colleagues.

I will happily accept the challenge of changing your perception of our industry. I'm a technical recruiter that covers the London market. Feel free to send me your CV. My details are in my profile. Also, feel free to have a look through my comment history. I'm not on this site to pick up leads or push for business, I'm here because I have a legitimate interest in the industry and I find that HN is a fantastic gauge as to the pulse of the industry.

Exactly as I propose in grandparent. Reread it if necessary.

they usually want to know about the work relation you had with the reference.

I will tell them that we are colleagues on-line. Although we have never met in real life, we participate in Hacker News together. Believe me, I know much more about lots of people here than many I know in real life. For example, I would heartily recommend patio11, kirubakaran, iamelgringo, or tptacek over some guy down the hall who I know nothing about except sports conversations at the coffee machine. It is 2010: in our industry, virtual relationships can easily carry as much weight as physical ones.

Just inventing something is dangerous and ethically questionable, recruiters or not.

There is nothing ethically questionable about my offer. I will tell the truth. I will also include this thread. Recruiters have created an artificial roadblock to keep people from working by protecting their turf. This is just a handy method to turn that roadblock into a speed bump. If they are required to collect professional references, this helps them satisfy their requirement.

I operate under the assumption that everyone is telling the truth until I find out that they aren't. Then I have nothing more to do with them. So, your CV and a phone interview should be more than enough for a recruiter to qualify you. It they can't (or won't), then one of two things must be true: either they are mining CVs or they are incompetent.

Then, what if the hiring company actually contacted you?

I fully expect them to and I will tell them the truth, including this thread. AFAIC, your CV, phone interview, and participation on Hacker News deserves at least a minimal amount of respect from hiring people. Requiring references prematurely is unnecessary and insulting.

I (obviously) feel very strongly about this and stand by my original offer to anyone here.

A few asides:

1. I never give references until after receiving a job offer (contingent upon acceptable references). If a company is incapable or unwilling to make a preliminary decision based upon the interaction between me and any number of their employees, then I don't want to work for them.

2. I have a great deal of respect for competent and professional recruiters. But then again, you're probably not reading this because you were able to do your jobs without references in the first place.

3. To recruiters who are mining CVs, representing jobs that don't exist, or misrepresenting jobs to protect your listings, please understand that I (and probably most of the competent professional programmers here) want nothing to do with you. Please become professional or just go away.

The fact is, after spending years in the company of postdoc level applied mathematicians and theoretical physicists, I would feel massively dishonest to say that I was good at maths. However, I do see the point of trying to put myself in the shoes of the person asking the question.