Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#51

Post by jakeogh » Thu, Dec 20, 2018, 7:30 PM UTC

eclipxe wrote: post #29

rdtsc wrote: post #17

I am baffled by how many people have no problems adding always listening and recording Google and Facebook devices to their living rooms. Some are considered tech people who should know stuff like this could happen, but they just don't care or don't think it will happen to them. Somewhere there is an ex-Stasi officer who is thinking "I wish we were that good and had people fooled to voluntarily install listening devi…

Because it doesn't matter. Human error. Will be fixed.

Ha. Sure. It's going to keep happening, and on a larger scale. Then people will (again) aruge it's no big deal. Stil relatively early in the conditioning stage.

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#52

Post by LinuxBender » Thu, Dec 20, 2018, 7:30 PM UTC

stevecalifornia wrote: post #38

rdtsc wrote: post #17

I am baffled by how many people have no problems adding always listening and recording Google and Facebook devices to their living rooms. Some are considered tech people who should know stuff like this could happen, but they just don't care or don't think it will happen to them. Somewhere there is an ex-Stasi officer who is thinking "I wish we were that good and had people fooled to voluntarily install listening devi…

1) It's always listening for a keyword, and then it starts recording. It's a voice interface for a computer. 2) Your phone is doing the same thing except for it follows you around everywhere you go and records your map location, what apps you use, who you are talking to and what your web searches are. Your phone isn't recording just what you say...its recording what you do and where you do it and when you do it. It's…

1) Nobody can prove that. It's always listening and you have to assume always recording and transmitting.

2) My phone is a $12 throw away that speaks voice and sms (text).

3) Loose lips sink ships.

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#53

Post by meritt » Thu, Dec 20, 2018, 7:31 PM UTC

rdtsc wrote: post #17

I am baffled by how many people have no problems adding always listening and recording Google and Facebook devices to their living rooms. Some are considered tech people who should know stuff like this could happen, but they just don't care or don't think it will happen to them. Somewhere there is an ex-Stasi officer who is thinking "I wish we were that good and had people fooled to voluntarily install listening devi…

A number of years ago, The Onion did a great parody piece [1] on how Facebook is ran by the CIA

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiPaTy2iJTM

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#54

Post by tjoff » Thu, Dec 20, 2018, 7:31 PM UTC

samplesize wrote: post #40

tjoff wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the vast majority of devices it is not always on. It is not a nitpick. Accidentally recording or even intentionally recording is many orders of magnitude simpler when the device is supposed to always be listening. The fact that a single employee even could make the mistake mentioned in the articles is one example of why. Eventhough it also really does hint that the backend isn't up to par at amazon.

Don't the vast majority of iOS and Android phones listen for either a Siri or Google Assistant wake word?

Not when the device is locked and screen is off.

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#55

Post by roywiggins » Thu, Dec 20, 2018, 7:31 PM UTC

jonas21 wrote: post #20

samangan wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The actual recordings are the most valuable data for modeling purposes so I actually assume they try to store it to improve the system

I'd imagine that a competent company would keep access to user audio recordings tightly locked down, either because they actually care about privacy or because they care about the bad PR of recordings getting leaked. But if the GDPR requires them to send the recordings to users upon request, they need to have a way to do that -- either by exposing a service on the web, or by providing access to customer service emplo…

The Alexa app lets you play back your own recordings.

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#56

Post by stevecalifornia » Thu, Dec 20, 2018, 7:31 PM UTC

baxtr wrote: post #48

stevecalifornia wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) It's always listening for a keyword, and then it starts recording. It's a voice interface for a computer. 2) Your phone is doing the same thing except for it follows you around everywhere you go and records your map location, what apps you use, who you are talking to and what your web searches are. Your phone isn't recording just what you say...its recording what you do and where you do it and when you do it. It's…

I get 1) and 3), but I don’t buy 2). Your phone works with Siri/any other assistant off. The connected speakers don’t. So the comparison doesn’t hold in my opinion.

As an example for #2, when I got an Android somehow I was either automatically opted in or accidentally opted into location sharing. Two years later I found that Google Maps could show me every location I had been to for the last 2 years. I could review, day by day, everywhere I had gone, what time I went, how I drove there and where I went to next.

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#57

Post by ryanmercer » Thu, Dec 20, 2018, 7:32 PM UTC

rdtsc wrote: post #17

I am baffled by how many people have no problems adding always listening and recording Google and Facebook devices to their living rooms. Some are considered tech people who should know stuff like this could happen, but they just don't care or don't think it will happen to them. Somewhere there is an ex-Stasi officer who is thinking "I wish we were that good and had people fooled to voluntarily install listening devi…

>I am baffled by how many people have no problems adding always listening and recording Google and Facebook devices to their living rooms.

I am baffled by people that think anyone cares about their conversation about Jeff at work or what Monica and Ross just did on the 75th viewing of an episode of friends, or that they talk to their stuffed rabbit named Bun that they've had since about a week after they were born about how miserable their life is and how they should just pack up and run away together... I mean...

"oh no, big bad google knows I shouted 'oi shut the fuck up' four times instead of three at the neighbors today" and "oh no, Amazon knows I asked what we want for dinner"

I guess I must be weird and other people are having extremely sensitive, if not classified, conversations in their residence but I just don't see what the big deal is.

Most of the people I personally know that find it bizarre people would have such a device have rewards cards, smart phones, take every damn quiz that myspace and facebook have ever had, checked in religiously with foursquare, tag their friends in every photo they upload seven times a day from every place they've been that day, check in everywhere they go on facebook and have 2+ streaming services monitoring every single thing they watch. Like, hellloooooo you're worried about a microphone that can't even get "hey alexa" "hey google" right half the time and actually trigger?

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#58

Post by eyjafjallajokul » Thu, Dec 20, 2018, 7:32 PM UTC

thfuran wrote: post #32

melling wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you baffled? They’re great little devices. I have two Amazon echoes. Now that I can use my Apple Music, they are used constantly. Voice-first devices are long overdue.

>Voice-first devices are long overdue. Sure, that's not really anything that anyone disagrees with. It's the acceptance of data collection and exfiltration that is odd.

Maybe a naive question, but how are they any worse than having phones with non-transparent hardware/radio drivers in your living room? We seem to have accepted that risk, and even carry phones around everywhere.

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#59

Post by tfha » Thu, Dec 20, 2018, 7:33 PM UTC

lykr0n wrote: post #24

Zelphyr wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know why this is getting downvoted. I feel the same way. Amazon and Google have yet to demonstrate to me that they value my privacy enough to take necessary steps to protect it. They, like Facebook, know most people foolishly don’t care enough to hold these companies feet to the fire on it. At the risk of stating the obvious; Facebook has more than demonstrated the opposite.

The only company I've seen take demonstrable action to protect their customer's privacy is Apple. Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Amazon have never given me a single reason to trust that they have my privacy concerns on their mind.

But with Apple's entire ecosystem being closed and intentionally locking you in, is Apple really a better choice. All it takes is one decision from the board that it would be more profitable to start violating privacy.

The board's legal mandate is to make as much money as possible. As soon as privacy is no longer a fad that makes more money and growth than the opportunity cost to not violating it, Apple will flip a switch. That's their duty as a for profit company.

Re: Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

#60

Post by ryanmercer » Thu, Dec 20, 2018, 7:33 PM UTC

LinuxBender wrote: post #52

stevecalifornia wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) It's always listening for a keyword, and then it starts recording. It's a voice interface for a computer. 2) Your phone is doing the same thing except for it follows you around everywhere you go and records your map location, what apps you use, who you are talking to and what your web searches are. Your phone isn't recording just what you say...its recording what you do and where you do it and when you do it. It's…

1) Nobody can prove that. It's always listening and you have to assume always recording and transmitting. 2) My phone is a $12 throw away that speaks voice and sms (text). 3) Loose lips sink ships.

> Nobody can prove that. It's always listening and you have to assume always recording and transmitting

Uh... packet analyzers, IP logs, bandwidth monitoring tools etc...

If instead of transmitting occasional bursts of data when you say the wake word it's been sending back tens of megabytes an hour, or tens to hundreds of megabytes a day, you can go "hey, it's probably transmitting everything it hears".

There are people that religiously watch what these devices are sending back just to try and catch one of the companies doing something fishy. There are people that religiously watch their network traffic period looking for something nefarious.

These devices aren't like your phone, where simply having it on can have all sorts of services/apps using data in the background or you open a webpage and tens or even hundreds of different servers are contacted and data pulled/pushed to/from them. It's a device that should be periodically checking for an update and sending very small audio files back in nearly-real time. If they were recording regularly, or especially all the time, and transmitting it back to a server it would stand out like a sore thumb.

Never mind the fact that keeping it secret, and not having a whistle blower, would be damn impossible. Someone's going to mention it to a loved one or friend, or flat out go online "I discovered my Amazon/Google device is actively listening and recording and sending to these IPs in these intervals" when they just know it as fact and didn't have to 'discover' it.