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Slack closes account of an Iranian user living in Canada

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Re: Slack closes account of an Iranian user living in Canada

#481

Post by smnrchrds »

SUr3na wrote: post #411
SamWhited wrote: post #305

I've been mad at the Go community in particular for continuing to promote Slack for ages, and this is exactly the hypothetical situation I always use to explain why (although there are other reasons too; Slack is a perfect embodiment of everything wrong with this industry, but that needs a fuller writeup). At a previous job we had to start doing this exact same thing when we were considering going public; this is the…

It's ironic that Golang.org is not accessible from Iran because of app engine.also several non proprietary repos like sourceforge. The only way to get go lang's source code is through github. It is only a matter of time untill Microsoft decides to block github for Iranians as well.I don't know why github is not currently blocked but I would not be surprised if it gets blocked.

None of the Google developer-oriented resources are accessible from Iran. For example, you have to use a VPN to download Android Studio or access Google educational materials. Golang is just yet another Google project that has blocked Iran.

Re: Slack closes account of an Iranian user living in Canada

#482

Post by 794CD01 »

taejo wrote: post #444
hartator wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

/s Exactly. It’s why we never saw two countries going to war.

Are you suggesting the US go to war with the EU to force them to repeal the GDPR, so that Slack can do business in the EU? I know HN typically takes a pro-business angle politically, but that seems beyond even the most rabid line that I usually see here. If not, I am totally confused about how your response connects to what I wrote.

Other way around. The EU is the one who bears the burden of forcing American companies like slack to comply with their laws. Though jumping straight to a shooting war feels like an overreaction. Maybe start with a fine and ban the company if they don't pay.

Re: Slack closes account of an Iranian user living in Canada

#483

Post by zanny »

adriand wrote: post #378
wpietri wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to see more things built on open protocols. But for that to be the case, we have to find ways to make better apps built on top of open protocols. We should start by admitting that Slack beat IRC. Beat it like a cheap hallway rug. IRC was always a terrible experience for novices, and it wasn't a great experience for experts. That it had any users at all is a testament not to IRC, but to what it enabled. S…

I think as ethical, intelligent and conscious individuals, we folks in the developer and hacker community want people to make decisions on the basis of principles, when the reality is that people generally make decisions on the basis of convenience. In fact, people are often willing to sacrifice their principles (to a certain extent) in the name of convenience. If we want people to use principled technology, then we…

Violating principles and respect for others is a vector for profit, which is why it always feels like a losing race. Its people in their spare time fighting against substantial revenue streams accrued from the violation of the freedoms and principles we want to uphold.

Re: Slack closes account of an Iranian user living in Canada

#484

Post by yamazaki »

panic wrote: post #300
mirimir wrote: post #190

So is this really an accurate title? It seems most likely that Slack has geolocated IP addresses from account access logs, and closed accounts with hits from sanctioned countries. Perhaps going back years. That in itself seems over the top. But it doesn't constitute ethnic profiling. But if someone has a counterexample, that would be OK too.

A lot of racism and ethnic profiling is exactly like this -- actions that are individually justifiable, but somehow end up focusing on a particular race or ethnicity despite everyone "not meaning it that way". Focusing on intent can help us feel better about ourselves when we unintentionally contribute to these problems, but if we actually want to fix them, we can't focus only on the intentional racism or intentional…

Slack doesn't even know their users race, ethnicity, or country AFAIK, thus they can't discriminate on that basis. I think this is just a badly handled case of abiding by the US embargo law. They seem to be disabling people who created their accounts from embargoed countries, probably checking by IP, which is inexact and bound to yield false positives

Re: Slack closes account of an Iranian user living in Canada

#485

Post by 794CD01 »

jstanley wrote: post #275
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know they're private companies and they _can_ do it, but just because you can doesn't mean you should. Actually, if you look at the image, Slack is beholden to US law, export regulations and economic sanctions - companies doing business with countries they shouldn't are in big trouble. See also: Huawei, who despite sanctions continued to do business with Iran, which caused the US to give them a huge fine. I don't…

The law isn't a magical paragon of morality. When the law is as clearly wrong as this one is, it should be violated.

What is so clearly wrong about trade sanctions between two countries? Do you think foreign trade is always a moral good?

Re: Slack closes account of an Iranian user living in Canada

#486

Post by zimpenfish »

black-tea wrote: post #430
wpietri wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to see more things built on open protocols. But for that to be the case, we have to find ways to make better apps built on top of open protocols. We should start by admitting that Slack beat IRC. Beat it like a cheap hallway rug. IRC was always a terrible experience for novices, and it wasn't a great experience for experts. That it had any users at all is a testament not to IRC, but to what it enabled. S…

> IRC was always a terrible experience for novices Who the hell cares? I figured out IRC when I was about 12 and I'm no genius. If that bar is too high for people in tech then we have serious problems.

> If that bar is too high for people in tech then we have serious problems.

But Slack isn't solely used by technical people. Where I work, everyone is on slack - product people, lawyers, tech people, etc.

Re: Slack closes account of an Iranian user living in Canada

#487

Post by samstave »

gaius wrote: post #217
samstave wrote: post #162

Serious question: Would this have anything to do with selecting Goldman Sachs as the handler for their IPO?

What are you implying?

Goldman Sachs has been the central player in major financial scandals in the past, proven documented, well known.

I don't think they do anything completely cleanly, so I question the thinking for Silicon Valley Unicorns using them to head their IPOs

Greece the 2008 crisis buyouts 1MDB

Look at the 1MDB scandal, where we are only now seeing charges coming against GS - The 1MDB and Greece scandals are very similar in the sense that GS had information regarding both situations which they knew was criminal, but chose to profit from it as opposed to prevent it. Knowing that their profiting would outweigh the consequences.

They are the antithesis of "in good faith" actors - and as such, I personally question the integrity of the companies and company founders who put their IPOs in GS' hands.

Look at FB... we know where their integrity lies.

I am reminded of the "How I built This" episode on Slack, and how it grew and the values of its founder -- which I now take with a grain of salt given that they are going with GS.

Re: Slack closes account of an Iranian user living in Canada

#488

Post by darkarmani »

jwildeboer wrote: post #161

So it seems that Slack is going through their log files and closing down accounts that have used IP addresses that are considered to be in embargoed countries. I base that assumption on various comments here and on Twitter. If true, it is definitely the worst way to do. It doesn't take into account any circumstantial evidence that could explain the use of such an IP address (vacation, VPN, BGP or a mistake in the geo…

So the next time someone attacks BGP they should divert slack traffic through Iran to get all users automatically banned? Or just think if slack accounts are compromised and a hacker logs-in through a proxy in Iran.

Re: Slack closes account of an Iranian user living in Canada

#489

Post by darkarmani »

794CD01 wrote: post #485
jstanley wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law isn't a magical paragon of morality. When the law is as clearly wrong as this one is, it should be violated.

What is so clearly wrong about trade sanctions between two countries? Do you think foreign trade is always a moral good?

> What is so clearly wrong about trade sanctions between two countries?

What trade sanctions have been applied to Canada?

Re: Slack closes account of an Iranian user living in Canada

#490

Post by sneakernets »

kalleboo wrote: post #456
black-tea wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IRC was always a terrible experience for novices Who the hell cares? I figured out IRC when I was about 12 and I'm no genius. If that bar is too high for people in tech then we have serious problems.

In my middle school (late 90's, the age of ICQ) all the self-described "non-technical" girls spent their breaks on mIRC in the computer lab gossiping or whatever teenage girls do. If we're talking about a developer audience (the readers of Hacker News) it really isn't difficult at all.

Are you sure that wasn't just AIM? AIM couldn't be port blocked like IRC. Most all schools had already blocked those ports.
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