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Slack closes account of an Iranian user living in Canada

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Re: Slack closes account of an Iranian user living in Canada

#361

Post by Spoom »

jwildeboer wrote: post #161

So it seems that Slack is going through their log files and closing down accounts that have used IP addresses that are considered to be in embargoed countries. I base that assumption on various comments here and on Twitter. If true, it is definitely the worst way to do. It doesn't take into account any circumstantial evidence that could explain the use of such an IP address (vacation, VPN, BGP or a mistake in the geo…

> Slack should offer a configurable notification that could contain other contact methods to the banned user. Slack could also give those users at least sth like 48 hours to inform their contacts about what is going to happen. And it could offer banned users a downloadable archive of all content created to make sure no data is lost.

The government could argue that any of these options is "doing business with" an identified, sanctioned individual.

I'm not saying it's right, I could just see a company attorney wanting to minimize potential federal liability.

Re: Slack closes account of an Iranian user living in Canada

#362

Post by [deleted] »

gingerlime wrote: post #256
wil421 wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just said you didn’t know and now all of the sudden you do? It seems the harder restrictions were lifted in 2014 in the EU due to member state disputes.

I said that I'm not sure, but that I doubt it. I then spent some time checking, and couldn't find anything to support your claim. If you have any sources that EU countries are forbidden from employing "normal" Syrian people (now or even before 2014), I'd love to see them. Otherwise, it really feels like you're just trolling to be honest.

[deleted]

Re: Slack closes account of an Iranian user living in Canada

#363

Post by ryandrake »

wpietri wrote: post #336
SamWhited wrote: post #305

I've been mad at the Go community in particular for continuing to promote Slack for ages, and this is exactly the hypothetical situation I always use to explain why (although there are other reasons too; Slack is a perfect embodiment of everything wrong with this industry, but that needs a fuller writeup). At a previous job we had to start doing this exact same thing when we were considering going public; this is the…

I would love to see more things built on open protocols. But for that to be the case, we have to find ways to make better apps built on top of open protocols. We should start by admitting that Slack beat IRC. Beat it like a cheap hallway rug. IRC was always a terrible experience for novices, and it wasn't a great experience for experts. That it had any users at all is a testament not to IRC, but to what it enabled. S…

Not necessarily disagreeing but could someone provide some solid examples of IRC being a terrible user experience? Whenever IRC comes up, people say it lost and it’s not the right technology. When pressed, they wave their hands around saying “...because, uh, user experience reasons!” As a longtime user of IRC, I’m probably blind to these issues. What’s so bad about it that causes people to put up with these inadequate “cloud” re-implementations?

Re: Slack closes account of an Iranian user living in Canada

#364

Post by paulddraper »

ashelmire wrote: post #358
aetherson wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Word. I don't love Slack, but IRC is awful, and an open protocol replacement for Slack would have to make easier many of the features that Slack has and IRC lacks.

What features does IRC lack? The messaging, chat rooms or PMs, private servers, file sharing, etc has existed forever. You can also build any sort of tool for integration with it. I guess it lacks persistence and access to history? But there are surely ways to solve that.

> persistence and access to history

Yep.

> there are surely ways to solve that

Most common solution is to use something else.

Re: Slack closes account of an Iranian user living in Canada

#365

Post by jki275 »

aetherson wrote: post #342
wpietri wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to see more things built on open protocols. But for that to be the case, we have to find ways to make better apps built on top of open protocols. We should start by admitting that Slack beat IRC. Beat it like a cheap hallway rug. IRC was always a terrible experience for novices, and it wasn't a great experience for experts. That it had any users at all is a testament not to IRC, but to what it enabled. S…

Word. I don't love Slack, but IRC is awful, and an open protocol replacement for Slack would have to make easier many of the features that Slack has and IRC lacks.

In general, IRC is no worse than Slack... What features are you talking about?

Re: Slack closes account of an Iranian user living in Canada

#366

Post by bradleyland »

ryanmercer wrote: post #237
dustinmoris wrote: post #147

Wow the Twitter thread and the experiences which are mentioned here sound so extreme and crazy that I am seriously confused to what believe. - Is this all made up to prove some point? - Is this just how the US ticks right now? - Is Slack just completely gone mad? - Is this what companies believes is acceptable nowadays? - Is this the future of the web? The fact that I am not sure what to believe and that I wouldn't b…

>- Is this just how the US ticks right now? >- Is Slack just completely gone mad? >- Is this what companies believes is acceptable nowadays? >- Is this the future of the web? Iran has sanctions against it right now. Slack, and other companies that have done this sort of thing with Iran, Cuba, etc the past few years, are trying to stay on the right side of the law. To avoid imprisonment, fines, etc. If you think what…

Heh. Seems everyone has decided to shoot the messenger.

You may disagree with the policy, but ryaymercer isn't wrong. Living in startup land where everything is light, you move fast, and things get broken, it's very easy to overlook that there is this 500 lb gorilla in the corner just waiting to smash you into pulp for doing the wrong thing.

My guess is that something internally at Slack has triggered this. It seems likely that they're in the midst of contracting with a Federal agency, or something of the sort. When you do business with the Federal government, all manner of hell is unleashed on you in the form of paperwork and due diligence. "Negotiation" boils down to litigation, and litigation is god damned expensive.

I am not saying what's happening is right. I'm simply pointing out that this is the culmination of decades of policy and momentum within our government. Wagging our collective fingers at Slack isn't going to change a thing. What can Slack do? Let's say they pass on whatever opportunity is driving this ridiculous witch hunt. So then what? Some Federal agency doesn't get to use their messaging platform? Who cares? Nothing changes.

It all starts with asking the right questions, and ryanmercer's post likely contains the answers to a number of questions that few people are asking: what's motivating this change, who is responsible for the policy, and how can our community affect change to prevent it in the future?

Re: Slack closes account of an Iranian user living in Canada

#367

Post by hartator »

taejo wrote: post #328
saryant wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if the GDPR applied in this situation, Slack is trying to obey US sanctions. I’d wager a guess GDPR can’t force a company to violate those laws.

GDPR has the force of law in its area of jurisdiction. If Slack can't comply with it, then they'd better not do business in that jurisdiction. That's how the law works; there isn't some hierarchy of one country's laws overriding others'.

/s Exactly. It’s why we never saw two countries going to war.

Re: Slack closes account of an Iranian user living in Canada

#368

Post by paulddraper »

ryandrake wrote: post #363
wpietri wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to see more things built on open protocols. But for that to be the case, we have to find ways to make better apps built on top of open protocols. We should start by admitting that Slack beat IRC. Beat it like a cheap hallway rug. IRC was always a terrible experience for novices, and it wasn't a great experience for experts. That it had any users at all is a testament not to IRC, but to what it enabled. S…

Not necessarily disagreeing but could someone provide some solid examples of IRC being a terrible user experience? Whenever IRC comes up, people say it lost and it’s not the right technology. When pressed, they wave their hands around saying “...because, uh, user experience reasons!” As a longtime user of IRC, I’m probably blind to these issues. What’s so bad about it that causes people to put up with these inadequat…

Access to history and search

Google SSO/SAML

Threads

But mostly access to history and search. (Note that it's not coincidence that this is what differentiates the free from paid Slack.)

Re: Slack closes account of an Iranian user living in Canada

#369

Post by paraditedc »

jwildeboer wrote: post #331

OP here. Dear mods, you have now twice changed the description, which I understand. But would it be too much to ask to have an indication that shows that someone who is NOT the OP has changed the description? The way it is currently worded are simply not my words and I have no way of showing that. Could potentially be bad for me.

You'd have a better chance shooting them an email. Contact is at the bottom.

Re: Slack closes account of an Iranian user living in Canada

#370

Post by kitd »

mirimir wrote: post #355
kitd wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if what you say is technically true, Slack appear to have interpreted that as saying that they can't do business with anyone who as ever in the past opened up the Slack app in a designated country, whatever their nationality and/or reason for being there. At the very least, that is a shoddy algorithm.

> ... who as ever in the past opened up the Slack app in a designated country ... But they don't know that. They have IP addresses. And they do geolocation. But IP-based geolocation isn't reliable enough for that.

Well agreed, which makes it worse.
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