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Breakthrough ultrasound treatment to reverse dementia moves to human trials

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Re: Breakthrough ultrasound treatment to reverse dementia moves to human trials

#11
post #4
post #2

Is there speculation on what this would do to a healthy brain?

Probably more harm than good- you probably don’t want ultrasonic waves shaking your neurons around without a good reason. This sounds like a “kick a TV and it works again” sort of technology.

I don't think this is a kick the TV type of technology. It's causing the microglia to activate, and I doubt it's causing any neuroinjury. Because the last people you want to injure are people with Alzheimer's.

Re: Breakthrough ultrasound treatment to reverse dementia moves to human trials

#12

Alzheimer is weird in that plenty of treatment works in mice but fails in humans. I suspect it's primarily because we do not fully understand the cause of Alzheimer.

Conversely it would be shocking if most things that work on mice worked in the same ways on humans.

what are you thinking of specifically? I mean genetically and functionally we are incredibly similar as mammals. Most poisons/etc. work the same for example.

Re: Breakthrough ultrasound treatment to reverse dementia moves to human trials

#14
Ok so the article says this successfully destroys the amyloid plaques, but does it help cognition or slow the disease?

Specifically for “slowing” it seems entirely plausible that breaking up the plaques will allow misfolded proteins to migrate (due to reduced size).

Ignoring entirely the there have been multiple drugs that successfully reduced amyloid build up, with no actual benefit. Eg they did exactly what they were designed for to no avail.

Re: Breakthrough ultrasound treatment to reverse dementia moves to human trials

#16
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conversely it would be shocking if most things that work on mice worked in the same ways on humans.

what are you thinking of specifically? I mean genetically and functionally we are incredibly similar as mammals. Most poisons/etc. work the same for example.

I'm completely speculating, but I think when your lifespan is only 2 years anyway, you have almost no selective pressure for things like the kinds of diseases of aging that humans are now battling. So there are all kinds of things like cancer and dementia that mice's systems are much more naive to, and hence they are tend to get sick from "simple", easily treatable versions of these diseases. Meanwhile humans have evolved strong defenses for all the common / simple causes and are trying to fix the "hard" versions of all these things.

Re: Breakthrough ultrasound treatment to reverse dementia moves to human trials

#17
post #4
post #2

Is there speculation on what this would do to a healthy brain?

Probably more harm than good- you probably don’t want ultrasonic waves shaking your neurons around without a good reason. This sounds like a “kick a TV and it works again” sort of technology.

My first thought: Great, an ultrasonic brain cleaner. Back in the day, I used an ultrasonic homogenizer for mitochondria preps. But this would be a lot gentler, I guess.

Re: Breakthrough ultrasound treatment to reverse dementia moves to human trials

#18
post #14

Ok so the article says this successfully destroys the amyloid plaques, but does it help cognition or slow the disease? Specifically for “slowing” it seems entirely plausible that breaking up the plaques will allow misfolded proteins to migrate (due to reduced size). Ignoring entirely the there have been multiple drugs that successfully reduced amyloid build up, with no actual benefit. Eg they did exactly what they we…

It’s moving to a phase I trial, that means it’s just being tested for tolerability and adverse effects. A firm conclusion about outcome won’t be available until a phase III trial is completed, that’s years down the line. So we don’t know, but looks promising.

Re: Breakthrough ultrasound treatment to reverse dementia moves to human trials

#19

Alzheimer is weird in that plenty of treatment works in mice but fails in humans. I suspect it's primarily because we do not fully understand the cause of Alzheimer.

This is because our mouse models of Alzheimer disease are terrible. And pretty much everything we've tried has been aimed at beta-amyloid. I think there is a better chance for this therapy because of the way it works, by transition the microglia over to an anti-inflammatory mode. If this procedure passed safety trials I wouldn't be surprised if a similar therapy worked for schizophrenia, anxiety, and depression.

I agree that various kinds of immune modulation will be a huge part of medicine in the future. Promising results vs cancer, seems plausible you could teach or program the immune system to attack anything in the body once you’ve identified it. Controlling autoimmunity will also be a challenge.

Re: Breakthrough ultrasound treatment to reverse dementia moves to human trials

#20
post #14

Ok so the article says this successfully destroys the amyloid plaques, but does it help cognition or slow the disease? Specifically for “slowing” it seems entirely plausible that breaking up the plaques will allow misfolded proteins to migrate (due to reduced size). Ignoring entirely the there have been multiple drugs that successfully reduced amyloid build up, with no actual benefit. Eg they did exactly what they we…

It says more than that:

"the team has worked to further test and refine the technique, successfully proving the treatment both clears toxic proteins and restores memory function safely in several different rodent models, including an older mouse model designed to resemble human brains of 80 to 90 years old."

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