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The Future of ZFS in FreeBSD

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41–50 of 102 posts

Re: The Future of ZFS in FreeBSD

#41
post #36
post #29

As a long-time BSD user (since 1982) this both saddens and heartens me. It saddens me, that the core development path in BSD was not able to sustain being the "reference" model for a wider community. There is no point pretending you can, when nobody else wants to follow that model. The heartening moment, is that linux and BSD should share code when they can, because its sensiblet to avoid pointless fork. Pointful for…

> It saddens me, that the core development path in BSD was not able to sustain being the "reference" model for a wider community. Could you explain? FreeBSD was not the reference implementation of ZFS, illumos was. ZoL is still tied up in the OpenZFS project (as are illumos and FreeBSD), this is more a matter of rebasing onto the subproject where more development is occurring. As it was, FreeBSD's implementation was…

Oh, I misunderstood. I thought the input back into Linux ZFS grew out of the (Free)BSD work. If its two independent OS trees both referring upstream to Illumos, its a minor moment.

What does the solaris compatibility shim do in the end, which couldn't be done direct in the codebase? I don't like shims, it feels like the linux compatibility ABI moment where something gets added and the shim drifts, and then you can't do eg DRI any more because "they changed how it worked and we didn't catch up"

But, thanks for the cluestick hit. If this is just flavour of ice-cream from the same truck, I'm less worried.

Re: The Future of ZFS in FreeBSD

#42
post #19
post #16

Is there a resource that explains the historical intricacies and licensing issues surrounding ZFS from the beginning? From what I've seen, it's a clusterfuck whichever *nix OS you like.

As I understand it, including ZFS requires all linked code to be bound by the CDDL, which the GPL cannot do. https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2016/feb/25/zfs-and-linux/ "[§]3.1 … Any Covered Software that You distribute or otherwise make available in Executable form must also be made available in Source Code form and that Source Code form must be distributed only under the terms of this License. … "[§] 3.4 … You may no…

But Ubuntu figured it was ok to ship with zfs.

https://blog.ubuntu.com/2016/02/18/zfs-licensing-and-linux

Though FSF doesn't seem to support it.

https://www.fsf.org/licensing/zfs-and-linux

And a few HN posts regarding the Ubuntu's announcement.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11125063

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11240402

Re: The Future of ZFS in FreeBSD

#43
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They probably don't want another service storing and analysing your messages. The free version is basically useless: "Stay connected for 2 hours while inactive (permanent for first 7 days)" because of this.

Sure, but I can't even reconnect with another client with my normal Freenode account now.

Hit up #freenode and see if one of the staff can mediate wih the channel ops for you - "I was banned by account because irccloud but am happy to use another client" seems like a reasonable request to me

(I'm freenode staff but currently mostly on hiatus due to lack of tuits)

Re: The Future of ZFS in FreeBSD

#44
post #34
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it would have gotten announced w/o the approval of their giant army of lawyers.

Apple AFAIK started work with Sun in charge - it was Oracle getting its hands on Solaris tech that had Apple pull out.

Because Lawyers? or because nobody like Larry?

Re: The Future of ZFS in FreeBSD

#45
post #24
post #16

Is there a resource that explains the historical intricacies and licensing issues surrounding ZFS from the beginning? From what I've seen, it's a clusterfuck whichever *nix OS you like.

Definitely feels like it. OSX had its "we're onboard with ZFS" moment which vanished. I am believing this was a licence fubar.

Or they just figured they wanted a file system that also works on mobile devices (apfs even works on watchOS) with limited memory.

Re: The Future of ZFS in FreeBSD

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the ZFS FreeBSD code are going to be taken from ZoL, what's the difference of use ZFS on FreeBSD and GNU/Linux?

For ZFS itself, probably not much. It'd be the rest of the system you'd be selecting things for.

Isn't FreeBSD suddenly getting a version of zfs with features and bits of code that is developed against Linux?

Sounds like edge cases for performance and stability could show up?

Re: The Future of ZFS in FreeBSD

#49
post #39
post #6

> In the past few years the vast majority of new development in ZFS has taken place in DelphixOS and zfsonlinux (ZoL). Earlier this year Delphix announced that they will be moving to ZoL https://www.delphix.com/blog/kickoff-future-eko-2018 This shift means that there will be little to no net new development of Illumos. So, basically, Delphix was a (the only?) commercial user of Illumos and now they're abandoning it f…

> It also sounds like FreeBSD also lacks the resources to maintain an implementation of something like ZFS, which is ironic since not too long ago it seemed like one of the marquee features they had that Linux didn't. There's no contradiction here. FreeBSD was never the primary contributor to (Open)ZFS (it was an Illumos thing), but we had the resources to make it a first class citizen on FreeBSD at a time when Linux…

I just wish the ZFS could be more tightly integrated into Linux than it can (due to licensing). Would be nice to not have two implementations of a crypto system, a raid parity computation system, block caching, allocation, etc. Oh well...

Re: The Future of ZFS in FreeBSD

#50

DragonflyBSD Hammer2 filesystem all of a sudden looks way more appealing. Kind of ironic given DragonflyBSD roots in FreeBSD

> DragonflyBSD Hammer2 filesystem all of a sudden looks way more appealing.

Why? Existing FreeBSD ZFS users can and in all probability will continue to use it. Why does a less mature FS on a less widely used BSD derivative suddenly look appealing to you?

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