Live data from Hacker News

Windows Sandbox

techcommunity.microsoft.com

181–190 of 328 posts

Re: Windows Sandbox

#181
post #38

Only Microsoft would come up with a new security feature and then intentionally and arbitrarily limit its availability to the most expensive version of their OS. This is the same company that thinks putting ads in the fucking file explorer is appropriate on an OS they charge hundreds and hundreds of dollars for.

I paid 13€ for an Microsoft Windows 10 Pro OEM key. I thought everyone is doing this as well?

I paid 0€ for the LTSB version just by changing the KMS server. I thought everyone is doing this!

Re: Windows Sandbox

#182
post #19
post #2

Please do not make this a Pro / Enterprise feature. I do remote tech support for my parents and would love for them to browse / use apps in a sandbox.

That is what Windows store apps and MSIX sandbox are for.

I'm not much of a Windows user, but MSIX sounds great.

Does it add a simple context menu entry to convert an installer? Bonus points for straight up Install and even more for Run.

I see it's open source, so if it's missing it may be possible to make a distribution of it with those things implemented. Then one could install it and make it a default msi handler.

Edit: from what I see conversion is much more involved. Create a certificate and go through a wizard and fill out some forms. Correct me if the is a quick and easy convert option. Otherwise it's a nice thing that needs more development to be useful for a generic user.

Re: Windows Sandbox

#183
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'd probably have to raise the price of their cheaper versions if they didn't do this. Seems like a good compromise for the consumer to me. Offset the cost of all of the fancy tech most people won't want or use to those willing to pay more and potentially use it.

Why?

Who are these users who want/could make effective use of sandbox, but need none of the other features of pro, exactly?

Re: Windows Sandbox

#184

Did Microsoft fix the issue that when Windows virtualization is enabled then VirtualBox VMs do not run [0]? Better they focus some of their resources to fix that first. If not yet, then Windows Sandbox it is a less useful feature that it may seem, because we have to choose between Windows Virtualization and VirtualBox VM snapshots all the time. [0] https://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/16801

This. I cannot use docker on my gaming rig to use it as dev machine sometimes because I need VirtualBox on it.

Re: Windows Sandbox

#185
Microsoft actually has this nifty thing meant for IT admins called App-V, that allows you to create immutable application packages that execute in an isolated environment where changes made to the local system default to copy-on-write and are redirected to a centralized location (including both filesystem changes and registry changes).

It's actually been integrated into Windows 10 Enterprise edition for quite a while now, and I personally use it to package up a lot of the apps I use on a daily basis, delivering the packages through a network drive and synchronizing the centralized state store with Syncthing for mostly seamless cross-device roaming. (You can download the App-V Sequencer from the Windows 10 ADK to package some apps to try it out for yourself, if you happen to have a copy of Windows 10 Enterprise: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/get-starte...)

This actually works fairly well for most apps, but unfortunately the isolation isn't perfect, and some apps for inexplicable reasons manage to get around the App-V sandbox and read/write to the local filesystem directly (Especially apps that have some kind of licensing mechanism, where licensing state can't be properly isolated and synchronized. Though you could definitely argue that's the licensing mechanism working as intended, in my view it still represents a technical failure on the part of the sandbox that this can happen), forcing me to install them locally instead of keeping them as isolated App-V packages.

I was hoping this would basically be App-V but with better isolation through the lightweight virtualization layer they built for windows containers (and with less restrictive licensing. Seeing lots of valid criticism on licensing here, but from where I stand, Pro and above is still much more accessible than App-V's Enterprise-only), but looks like they can't quite serve the same use cases just yet.

App-V isolates state changes, but those isolated state changes are persisted on disk, so when properly configured, you can use an app across multiple sessions, closing and reopening at will without losing state, as if it was locally installed.

Sandbox also isolates state changes, but those state changes seem to be ephemeral and will be discarded upon closing the app. This means it's only useful for running apps that are mostly stateless or for experimenting with untrusted apps. There's nothing wrong with serving those use cases, but to someone who's been feeling the pain from App-V's poor isolation, and someone who's been watching immutable application ecosystems like Nix, Guix, Flatpak, Snaps, etc, flourish in the Linux world, it does seem like a missed opportunity. Definitely hoping they're planning to extend it to also support the same use cases as App-V in the future.

Re: Windows Sandbox

#186
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iOS 12 runs on everything through the 5S, and notably improved performance over iOS 10/11 on the same devices. [1] is a bunch of benchmarks from back in the beta period. My kid has it on a 6, and it's legitimately good performance there. Good luck getting the latest Android onto a 5 year old handset without jumping through some non-trivial hoops. [1]: http://www.iphonehacks.com/2018/09/ios-12-performance-improv...

I'm not speaking hypothetically, but from experience. I have a 4 year old 200gbp Android phone running Pie, took 10 minutes. I also have an iPhone 8, this is an Ok phone but is a worse experience than the 4 year old Android phone. Despite the cost being much higher, the screen is worse quality, for instance. My partner has a 6 and it is remarkably slower than both. To the point where you sometimes just want to give u…

Which cheapo Android has a better screen than an iPhone 8??

Re: Windows Sandbox

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same goes for full disk encryption, it isn’t included in the cheapest edition I installed on an old laptop for my mother. Now booting with veracrypt takes 2 minutes. Needless to say I had to get her a chromebook: new laptop, easy to use, secure and for the price of one windows license. This is what will get Microsoft in the end.

Secure and inexpensive as long as you don't mind paying with your privacy. I'm worried that this is going to be the compromise we're all forced to make in the future.

Seems like the privacy situation isn't much better in Windows 10 tbh. At least Microsoft aren't an advertising company (for now) I suppose.

Re: Windows Sandbox

#188
post #38

Only Microsoft would come up with a new security feature and then intentionally and arbitrarily limit its availability to the most expensive version of their OS. This is the same company that thinks putting ads in the fucking file explorer is appropriate on an OS they charge hundreds and hundreds of dollars for.

This, plus RDSH role, is why I run Windows Server 2019 Datacenter as my daily driver Windows system, with a background VirtualBox VM with a host only network connections hosting vlmcsd. As for why RDSH, there is no reason why Windows 10 client can't host multiple WinStations/sessions simultaneously, other than Microsoft wanting to milk users for big money with Windows Server. UNIX allows this multi-session behavior with SSH and various [even nested] X servers!

Re: Windows Sandbox

#189
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did you buy such a cheap copy of Windows 10 Pro?

Those are digital (unused) licenses, that although can't technically be resold, they "can" be in Europe as they contradict a ruling made in 2012 (I don't have time to dig the link up, unfortunately).

To be fair they aren't necessarily unused. I made the mistake of buying one once and had to jump through a lot of hoops to get Microsoft to activate it. I'm still not sure that it was entirely legal, if I'm honest.

Re: Windows Sandbox

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I paid 13€ for an Microsoft Windows 10 Pro OEM key. I thought everyone is doing this as well?

I use a windows 8 retail key

Last time I tried a (legitimately owned) Windows 7 Ultimate key (around 6 months ago?) it still happily activated Windows 10 despite no longer being "officially" supported.
Post reply on HN