Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Man sues feds after being detained for refusing to unlock his phone at airport

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 248 posts

Re: Man sues feds after being detained for refusing to unlock his phone at airport

#51

Post by trevyn »

danboarder wrote: post #6

Suggestion: for international travel, when possible stow your powered off phone in checked baggage, and bring a non-important factory-reset phone or tablet for entertainment or to connect to the cloud if needed for work etc. If needed keep your work files in a hidden folder on an SD card in your camera... lots of annoying but increasingly necessary workarounds to deal with the growth of authoritarian states.

All the inbound customs checkpoints I've seen in the US and overseas are after you pick up your checked luggage. It sounds like this specific case was outbound, but outbound inspection at commercial airports is unusual in the US.

Re: Man sues feds after being detained for refusing to unlock his phone at airport

#52

Post by aflag »

User23 wrote: post #17
way2983 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So, the selfish question then is: How do I protect myself from such unwarranted searches? Is there a way I can present my phone such that it drops into a mode that contains no data? Do I need to back my phone up before traveling, wipe it for the border crossing, and then restore once I feel safe? Save your encrypted system configuration/data on a service. Leave all your devices behind. Buy new devices on the other s…

Until a court rules that they can ask for your encrypted remote backup because reasons. And then hold you in contempt until you comply. This isn’t a technical problem, it’s a political one, which means it demands a political solution.

You can leave your phone at home and buy another one in the new location. That's why they have phone shops in the airports.

Re: Man sues feds after being detained for refusing to unlock his phone at airport

#53

Post by jacobush »

ams6110 wrote: post #23
superkuh wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget that the border zone extends 100 miles in from the actual border (including the great lakes). Most US people live their entire lives in the constitution free zone where this kind of violation is allowed.

However the authority using "border zone" justification for a warrantless search must also have probable cause to believe you have recently crossed the border.

How probable?

Re: Man sues feds after being detained for refusing to unlock his phone at airport

#54

Post by aflag »

peterwwillis wrote: post #40
gabrielmoshe wrote: post #3

This is certainly not the first article of its kind, and the legality of such action seems to be upheld in court (at least the use of search without a warrant at the border). So, the selfish question then is: How do I protect myself from such unwarranted searches? Is there a way I can present my phone such that it drops into a mode that contains no data? Do I need to back my phone up before traveling, wipe it for the…

Most Americans don't protect their data, because most Americans aren't potentially going to be set up by their government to be made to look like some kind of terrorist. If you happen to be non-white or non-christian or have such as family or who live in a majority Muslim country, then you probably do want to protect yourself against this eventuality. In that case, either bring a dumb/brick phone for them to search,…

White Americans just have lower odds. But it only takes the border control officer to find something "suspicious" like a video about nuclear bombs in your youtube history and now you might just be a rotten apple. What you think is fine and what law enforcers think can be quite different.

I'm not saying you should live in fear, just that these kind of checks are not good for anyone. Not even if you carry your sweater over your shoulders.

Re: Man sues feds after being detained for refusing to unlock his phone at airport

#55

Post by baybal2 »

bruceb wrote: post #22

The problem with Customs and Border Protection is the attitude. They do have a challenging job. 99%+ of travelers are legit and doing nothing nefarious. They have to pick out the ones who are not legit/up to no good. I have no problem with them asking questions of myself or other travelers, even a lot of questions. The problem is the attitude and abusive nature of their conduct. I have had this experience a couple ti…

My "best" experience was getting called for a questioning, having to wait 1 hour while missing my flight, while guys that were supposed to interrogate were having a "coffee" break in a booth few metres away.

When the guy turned up (R. Torres on the badge) he was visibly drunk.

Re: Man sues feds after being detained for refusing to unlock his phone at airport

#56

Post by anoncoward111 »

jeauxlb wrote: post #49
gammateam wrote: post #28

So did anybody call a lawyer like he asked? Reminds me of the movie Trading Places where Eddie Murphy asked for a lawyer and all of the aristocrats coughed and turned away My rehearsed line is “you in the I’ll split the settlement with you if you record this and call a lawyer!” Gotta disrupt the bystander syndrome by calling out a particular person And provide the financial incentive

How would this even work? I google for local "immigration lawyers"(??) and tell the person who answers a man whose name I don't know yelled at me to call them, and that they get someone down to the airport? I'd like to think if I saw this happening I'd step in to help, but I don't feel like I would have enough compelling --- let alone actionable --- information for a lawyer to be interested enough to intervene.

Here's how I would handle it:

In addition to calling several high profile agencies like ACLU and EFF, I would call one or two local lawyers and say,

"Hi, my name is FirstLast, at 2:05 PM I was at LAX Terminal 2. A man wearing XYZ was being led away by CBP agents and was pleading for someone to call a lawyer. Is this something you can handle? I imagine you can get in contact with LAX authorities if you are interested in taking this case."

I guess it's different at the federal level because they can detain people longer and with less cause, but eventually I believe they have to be offered the right to legal representation and being hauled in front of a judge publically.

Unless of course the US Govt wants to extradite you from LAX to Guantanamo, at which point a lawyer is the least of your worries.

Re: Man sues feds after being detained for refusing to unlock his phone at airport

#57

Post by ascar »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #38
gammateam wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry who would be laughed out of the room and for what? It wasnt clear to me from what you wrote Also I found it interesting that Germans perceive the US as overly litigious but I found an article that said Germany has more lawsuits (per capita? In absolute totals?), funny how perception takes a long time to catch up to various forms of reality

German law allows predatory lawyers to file lawsuits on behalf of another party without their involvement. That level of BS thankfully doesn't happen in the US.

You are probably referring to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abmahnung which only affects a small part of civil law, but granted it has some nasty consequences.

Re: Man sues feds after being detained for refusing to unlock his phone at airport

#58

Post by loup-vaillant »

User23 wrote: post #17
way2983 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So, the selfish question then is: How do I protect myself from such unwarranted searches? Is there a way I can present my phone such that it drops into a mode that contains no data? Do I need to back my phone up before traveling, wipe it for the border crossing, and then restore once I feel safe? Save your encrypted system configuration/data on a service. Leave all your devices behind. Buy new devices on the other s…

Until a court rules that they can ask for your encrypted remote backup because reasons. And then hold you in contempt until you comply. This isn’t a technical problem, it’s a political one, which means it demands a political solution.

Then you can deny you have one, and they won't be able to prove anything. Or you can have two, and then give them the one with a porn collection or something. Or you can have three, in case they suspect you of having two.

Or you just have none, and they detain you indefinitely because you can't prove otherwise… though if you fear that, you probably shouldn't cross the border ever again.

I was wondering what they'd do if they ask for my Facebook account credentials, and I explain to them I have no Facebook account. Will I be detained for lying to an officer of the law? I don't have a Facebook account, but they might not believe me.

Re: Man sues feds after being detained for refusing to unlock his phone at airport

#59

Post by taneq »

gabrielmoshe wrote: post #3

This is certainly not the first article of its kind, and the legality of such action seems to be upheld in court (at least the use of search without a warrant at the border). So, the selfish question then is: How do I protect myself from such unwarranted searches? Is there a way I can present my phone such that it drops into a mode that contains no data? Do I need to back my phone up before traveling, wipe it for the…

> It feels crazy to ask this question, as an American citizen, but HN, what do you do to protect your data at the American border?

I guess the real (rhetorical) question is, are you doing this for the principle of the thing or because you have something illegal? If the latter, then the only foolproof way is to travel without a phone, purchase a burner when you get wherever you're going, then destroy it when you leave - it's cheap enough these days to do so for every trip.

If the former, then (as much as I hate this) just accept that it's all theatre and nobody really cares what's on your phone, and just unlock it and let them nose through your happy snaps for a minute on the way through.

Re: Man sues feds after being detained for refusing to unlock his phone at airport

#60

Post by zachberger »

bruceb wrote: post #22

The problem with Customs and Border Protection is the attitude. They do have a challenging job. 99%+ of travelers are legit and doing nothing nefarious. They have to pick out the ones who are not legit/up to no good. I have no problem with them asking questions of myself or other travelers, even a lot of questions. The problem is the attitude and abusive nature of their conduct. I have had this experience a couple ti…

I agree.

I went through the TSA checkpoint at the United Premier Access this last Tuesday. They have the new automated bin return system. Some of the people who travel less frequently were leaving the bins behind instead of putting them in the machine to be returned to the front. The TSA agent shouted at them repeatedly, "do any of you read English? Can't you read the damn sign?" While he pointed at the instructions. He did this for the entire time I was near the checkpoint.

This is belittling. Not everyone flys frequently and knows this process. How about respecting them and teaching them the new way?

I wanted to say something to one of the other agents, but why risk ending up on a list especially when it's this hard to get through now.

Post reply on HN