Back before we thought intelligent machines were going to be a thing, (we're talking 1970s here) I discussed online dating with my brother, who proposed writing a simple DB to match random men with random women. Neither of us had considered the possibility. I think we'd got to the idea that if they both liked tennis, it was plausible to rank them higher. He got pretty quickly to "its unethical, but simple" Now we hav…
The Dating Brokers: An autopsy of online love
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Re: The Dating Brokers: An autopsy of online love
#62Back before we thought intelligent machines were going to be a thing, (we're talking 1970s here) I discussed online dating with my brother, who proposed writing a simple DB to match random men with random women. Neither of us had considered the possibility. I think we'd got to the idea that if they both liked tennis, it was plausible to rank them higher. He got pretty quickly to "its unethical, but simple" Now we hav…
Body odor is probably mostly genetic. As human genome sequencing gets cheaper I expect someone will eventually start a dating service based on genetic matching. With a large enough training data set of successful long term relationships you could probably figure out combinations of genotypes that are likely to be compatible. (Or maybe it will end up being no more scientifically valid than horoscopes.)
Re: The Dating Brokers: An autopsy of online love
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
Body odor is probably mostly genetic. As human genome sequencing gets cheaper I expect someone will eventually start a dating service based on genetic matching. With a large enough training data set of successful long term relationships you could probably figure out combinations of genotypes that are likely to be compatible. (Or maybe it will end up being no more scientifically valid than horoscopes.)
This is one of the creepiest things I’ve ever heard and this generalized would most likely lead to the extinction of our species (or at least reinforce really bad racist stereotypes).
Re: The Dating Brokers: An autopsy of online love
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
Body odor is probably mostly genetic. As human genome sequencing gets cheaper I expect someone will eventually start a dating service based on genetic matching. With a large enough training data set of successful long term relationships you could probably figure out combinations of genotypes that are likely to be compatible. (Or maybe it will end up being no more scientifically valid than horoscopes.)
This is one of the creepiest things I’ve ever heard and this generalized would most likely lead to the extinction of our species (or at least reinforce really bad racist stereotypes).
Do you know how well dating services currently work for less desired groups? OKCupid has stats on their engineering blog and its not pretty
Re: The Dating Brokers: An autopsy of online love
#65We believe that the $0.57 average revenue per user that Match Group reported in their Q2 2018 Investor Presentation is just a fraction of the user profile's real value. At the risk of taking the wrong thing away from this article...IAC is an undervalued stock?
Re: The Dating Brokers: An autopsy of online love
#66Speaking of LTV, the power users in online dating can easily be worth several hundred a month. Super swipes and super likes are about $1 each these days and in crowded dating markets you have to rely on them heavily if you're hoping to cut through the noise of everybody else's profiles. I'm actually surprised Tinder and co haven't started selling an option to bid money to have your profile be seen first in your city.…
I suspect that a lot of people would stop using Tinder if they became aware it was possible to pay to boost your "position". People don't want to think that the person they matched with got there by paying lots of cash.
The more you use it, the more it knows your type, the more it recommends them, then it dangles out more possibilities that are just beyond reach but could be accessible if you just throw money at it.
The prospect of matching with someone you find very desirable keeps you swiping, making you more likely to do it in the future.
I'm not sure if this is necessarily unethical, but it is clearly an example of a knowledge-based power imbalance. Because I am quite sure the majority of Tinder users are unaware of all the machinations behind the curtains.
Re: The Dating Brokers: An autopsy of online love
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
Body odor is probably mostly genetic. As human genome sequencing gets cheaper I expect someone will eventually start a dating service based on genetic matching. With a large enough training data set of successful long term relationships you could probably figure out combinations of genotypes that are likely to be compatible. (Or maybe it will end up being no more scientifically valid than horoscopes.)
This is one of the creepiest things I’ve ever heard and this generalized would most likely lead to the extinction of our species (or at least reinforce really bad racist stereotypes).
Re: The Dating Brokers: An autopsy of online love
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is one of the creepiest things I’ve ever heard and this generalized would most likely lead to the extinction of our species (or at least reinforce really bad racist stereotypes).
Or maybe the opposite? Race as most people conceive of it today is primarily a social construct with only a slight genetic basis.
Re: The Dating Brokers: An autopsy of online love
#69The whole thing was built with affiliate marketing and also engineering was increasingly driven by the marketing team and their sometimes outrageous ideas. I remember the best idea that we had was to move to recurrent billing (profits went through the roof because people forgot to cancel the service) and not long after, it was acquired by T-mobile. That's when I left since the work suddenly was all about internal API's and not really interesting for a nerd like me.
The craziest place at friendscout was the customer care. We had one student working there who did a master thesis in psychology and chose sado-masochism as subject. She was on a roll there with all the people asking crazy questions to customer care. She was kind of a student of the human condition I think and I had some very cool conversations in my time there. Friendscout wasn't targeting this (S/M) niche.
However there were plenty of users that came from all sorts of dark corners and S/M was by far not the darkest. One guy (he was internally called the shit-eater because well no need for explanation) kept coming back with countless new pseudonyms every week ("brownsauce", "smellyjelly", "sh1tinyourmouth" and other words, very hard to filter out upon registration). He was an isolated individual no doubt but kept half of engineering and all of customer care busy for weeks.
Most users were fairly normal though, albeit (looking back) vulnerable in a way that still makes me sad. At least those who engaged with the customer care.
They were men (mostly) that hardly ever had a girlfriend whose name hasn't ended in dot-jpeg or the type of girls that would "power"-date 7 guys in as many days to find their "perfect love". For many it was like tinder but without labeling it as a casual dating site. But casual hookups were probably the main use (at least for guys).
Since it was early days the product wasn't very specialized or settled into a specific vertical, that's why we had all types of crazy people mingle along "normies". (what is normal? I have no idea but I knew that place certainly didn't feel normal)
The shit my colleagues from customer care have seen though was another level. Once they compiled the craziest stories into a book (verbatim conversations from users copy pasted for the amusement of staff) and handed it out to all employees as a Xmas gift. It was funny admitted but hardly ethical to put these customer-support emails into a book and then laugh about your stupid users at a company gathering.
Thinking back, my biggest regret about the place was not leaving earlier.
After the acquisition the founders also moved on to other projects. Founders were relocating their personal assets to Switzerland and learned how to capture all of the market. They formed various shell companies (e.g. Insparx in Luxembourg) through which to bootstrap much darker and more sinister "dating" ventures. They formed a company called c-date (c = casual dating which was the German front for Insparx). This allowed them to capture the lower segments of the market while keeping their names clean and also save some cash by funneling services through the low-tax structure instead of Germany. They also pushed into the upper segments like match.com (total market domination seems the point for any company so be careful what you get into because eventually they'll pivot into new domains and bootstrap it with what they have) ... but this isn't what I'm talking about here.
According to one of my old colleagues from friendscout who moved on with the managers to build C-date (again actually Insparx), C-date was using the affiliate marketing scheme they had at friendscout but applied in this way: advertise on websites for women (fashion magazines, interior design, basically all the Grune+Jahr publishing brands - most of Grune+Jahr were also affiliates with Friendscout). The messages women saw when visiting burda.de would be something like "looking for Mr Perfect?" or some other drivel that only fashion magazine readers would be gullible enough to respond. The women would click on it and sign up in an iframe of the original (girly) site (and not have a clue that this was c-date). And men would be targeted with a more honest and different message (on xhamster, redtube, youporn ... you name it) which read: "looking for horny sluts in your area that just want to get f!cked - click here ". Absolutely fucking degrading.
Both Jan Becker (and his mentor & former friendscout CEO Andreas Etten) managed to keep their names out of controversy and am sure are well respected individuals of the Munich & Zurich tech scene. But they're until today the names behind the Luxembourg shell companies and who signed off on these predatory strategies. They (and others) deserve to be burned at the stake for tricking these female (and quite frankly male) users with these growth hacking techniques.
If you have read this from beginning to end you might have noticed that it all started out with good intentions: Bring people together based on match making rooted in science. It ended as one of the most disgusting things that I've ever come across. Meanwhile I've seen countless similar ideas go from best intention to a dumpster-fire (sharing economy LOL). Whenever somebody claims that their idea will make the world a better place, run!! Because these are the worst.
Re: The Dating Brokers: An autopsy of online love
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
In a big city a good looking woman will accumulate 5 or maybe 10 thousand right swipes within a few weeks. How is she ever to get to your profile without you doing something to bump yourself to the top of the queue? There's physically no time in the day for her to even swipe that far.
But shouldn’t there also be thousands women on the site? Are you saying there’s 1 woman with 10000 matches, and 9999 women with 0 matches? Or that there are 10000 women, with 10000 matches each? Wouldn’t it make sense for the dating site to optimize it so that the women with the least matches get to the top of the queue, so you have a better chance of a mutual match?