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EPIC Lawsuit to Suspend Deployment of Body Scanners at US Airports

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Re: EPIC Lawsuit to Suspend Deployment of Body Scanners at US Airports

#61
post #51
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a hack, just go through the first class line regardless of the class you're flying in. I know several people who do this, and none have been questioned about it. The obvious response is: "Why should paying the airline more money get people better treatment from the Federal government?".

Presumably because the airlines fund the priority lines.

Quite possibly, but since that isn't made clear, a bit of civil disobedience seems in order to me.

Re: EPIC Lawsuit to Suspend Deployment of Body Scanners at US Airports

#62
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think it isn't ? There are over 800 million airline passengers in the US each year. If this radiation causes cancers in 1 in a million thats 800 people/year.

If this procedure causes 800 cancers per year then the flights themselves would be causing nearly a hundred thousand cancer cases per year. The radiation from the scanner is far, far safer than the exposure you receive during the flight that caused you to get scanned in the first place.

Also, we should keep in mind that the health effects of radiation may not be something you can linearly extrapolate to low doses, and there is evidence to suggest that they aren't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_no-threshold_model

Re: EPIC Lawsuit to Suspend Deployment of Body Scanners at US Airports

#63
post #5
post #2

Almost no politician would ever vote for removing this awful "security" measure. They would risk being blamed when another incompetent terrorist mastermind passes security and hopefully gets stopped by, now much more vigilant passengers. Going to the courts seems like a good way around that - sue the TSA. If someone with experience on these types of issues could comment I would be very interested to learn if this has…

Make a list of congressmen and senators that require you to let nude photos of your children to be taken by government employees. It's all about how you frame the argument

I suppose so, but such blatantly manipulative tactics make me feel unclean.

Re: EPIC Lawsuit to Suspend Deployment of Body Scanners at US Airports

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even the nudity that bothers me, personally. It's the radiation. I didn't sign up for unshielded exposure to dangerous levels of radiation when I bought my airplane ticket. Ultimately, I think a public health angle would have been a far more effective tact to take in the lawsuit or in the arguments against these scanners. It's the trump card. Privacy always loses an argument to fear and "security" in our pos…

From Wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backscatter_X-ray ) The Health Physics Society (HPS) reports that a person undergoing a backscatter scan receives approximately 0.05 μSv (or 0.005 mrems) of radiation; American Science and Engineering Inc. reports 0.09 μSv (0.009 mrems). At the high altitudes typical of commercial flights, naturally occurring cosmic radiation is considerably higher than at ground level. T…

Also from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backscatter_X-ray#Health_effect...

"However, researchers at the University of California, San Francisco, have argued that the amount of radiation is higher than claimed by the TSA and body scanner manufacturers because the doses were calculated as if distributed throughout the whole body, but the radiation from backscatter x-ray scanners is focused on just the skin and surrounding tissues"

"Furthermore, other scientists claim the health effects are backscatter are well understood whereas those from millimeter wave scanners are not"

Some of the machines being deployed by the TSA are millimeter wave scanners, BTW.

Re: EPIC Lawsuit to Suspend Deployment of Body Scanners at US Airports

#65
Of course if you were a terrorist wouldn't a line of hundreds of people all being crowded into one space BEFORE security make a much nicer target?

And if somebody did detonate a backpack full of nails in the security queue how they react - more security and make the queues longer?

Re: EPIC Lawsuit to Suspend Deployment of Body Scanners at US Airports

#67
post #60
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can both sides play the "think of the children" card in the same fight?

On that note, who says only two sides can play the "think of the children" card? To demonstrate otherwise, I'm going to make a third side which says that naked children aren't inherently that big a deal, and that greater harm comes from the implicit sexualization of children, and the paranoia about sexual predators that it causes. I don't really mind backscatter machines in airports; I find them funny and entertainin…

I take from what you say as touching on something I've often thought, we're treating the symptoms of an example problem as though it was an epidemic. I think that there are two sides to the security theater, what they show, and what they don't. I think that these devices will catch people sure, and make a great number of people like yourself sort of a comfortable indifferent, but I do believe that there is indeed a total package of risk management, and these public faces of the effort is just the tip of the iceberg. The evidence I have of this is when I went to Mexico one time and my significant other bought some kind of pill with my card. They could care less about me at the border, they went for the exact pocket of her purse. It took a matter of minutes, and we were on our way. I have some theories about how they might have done it, and I'm sure it was simple, but it is by no means obvious (maybe my CC info? the way she carried herself?) exactly how it was done.

Re: EPIC Lawsuit to Suspend Deployment of Body Scanners at US Airports

#68
post #60
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can both sides play the "think of the children" card in the same fight?

On that note, who says only two sides can play the "think of the children" card? To demonstrate otherwise, I'm going to make a third side which says that naked children aren't inherently that big a deal, and that greater harm comes from the implicit sexualization of children, and the paranoia about sexual predators that it causes. I don't really mind backscatter machines in airports; I find them funny and entertainin…

  >  people start screaming for someone in the government
  > to DO SOMETHING!!1, 
This may have been the case with 9/11, but I didn't see anyone screaming at governments to 'DO SOMETHING!!11' the last couple of times that things happened (underpants bomber, shoe bomber, liquid explosives conspiracy, etc). If anything politicians and officials have been proactive (in the sense of being reactive before their bosses -- the general public -- hound them to be reactive).

Re: EPIC Lawsuit to Suspend Deployment of Body Scanners at US Airports

#69
post #42
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good first step would be to eliminate separate security lines for First Class/VIP and everyone else. I suspect security lines would end up being shorter if our elected officials had to go through exactly the same process as the rest of us.

As a hack, just go through the first class line regardless of the class you're flying in. I know several people who do this, and none have been questioned about it. The obvious response is: "Why should paying the airline more money get people better treatment from the Federal government?".

In my experience this works every time at Dulles international (IAD) but never works at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International (ATL). At ATL you get sent to the back of the normal line.

Re: EPIC Lawsuit to Suspend Deployment of Body Scanners at US Airports

#70
post #63
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make a list of congressmen and senators that require you to let nude photos of your children to be taken by government employees. It's all about how you frame the argument

I suppose so, but such blatantly manipulative tactics make me feel unclean.

"They" aren't similarly so squeamish about waving fear and flags around to force body scans and invasive pat downs on us. This is an issue that is important and we must use tools that work to get it to stop.
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