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Reasons Python Sucks

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Re: Reasons Python Sucks

#131

Post by nurettin »

As a python newbie, I've had some trouble with the unstable async API (many differences between 3.6 and 3.7 and within minor versions of 3.7). Many ways of accomplishing the same goal with slightly different side effects are off-putting.

Another problem is packages. Authors don't really care about fixing dependency versions (had trouble with celery, quart and redis so far) we have much less trouble with node in this respect.

plus sides are: vs code has been amazing. pipenv is almost good enough. Community is great.

Re: Reasons Python Sucks

#132

Post by bakery2k »

closed wrote: post #116
fhood wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how far off the author was, because there are genuine things to complain about with python, though they may not be exclusive to python. I regularly wish python required some sort type indication for function parameters, because dealing with libraries that take complex objects as function parameters can be an absolute nightmare. I wish python had some equivalent to the switch statement that didn't involve w…

> I regularly wish python required some sort type indication for function parameters You can use type annotations, either via the builtin lib or 3rd party libs! https://docs.python.org/3/library/typing.html > do_x() if a.y() I feel this. You can use `a.y() and do_x()`, but I'm not sure how people would react :o

> `a.y() and do_x()`

If you're happy to write it that way round, why not just use `if a.y(): do_x()`?

Re: Reasons Python Sucks

#133

Post by nicoburns »

fhood wrote: post #100
notacoward wrote: post #70

Most of the points in this article fall on a continuum between irrelevant to dead wrong. 1 (versions) and 2 (installation) have to do with the ecosystem, not the language. Unsigned packages are a real problem, but hating on community-maintained software is just weird. Most software in your local Linux distro's repository is maintained by a "community" that might just be one person working in their spare time. 3 (synt…

It's funny how far off the author was, because there are genuine things to complain about with python, though they may not be exclusive to python. I regularly wish python required some sort type indication for function parameters, because dealing with libraries that take complex objects as function parameters can be an absolute nightmare. I wish python had some equivalent to the switch statement that didn't involve w…

Indeed. My personal bugbear is lack of multiline lambdas. I use these all the freaking time in JS and it's infuriating that I can't in python.

At the end of the day it's a minor complaint of course.

Re: Reasons Python Sucks

#134

Post by [deleted] »

colanderman wrote: post #35

A better reason to hate Python: the internal model is way overcomplicated for what it's meant to be: a beginner-friendly scripting language. "Everything-is-an-object", duck typing, decorators, bizarre scoping rules, etc., all make it difficult for experienced programmers to understand, let along beginners. I've always thought there's a much simpler language struggling to get out of Python, and I wish it would and wou…

[deleted]

Re: Reasons Python Sucks

#135

Post by mikestew »

Hello71 wrote: post #101
notacoward wrote: post #70

Most of the points in this article fall on a continuum between irrelevant to dead wrong. 1 (versions) and 2 (installation) have to do with the ecosystem, not the language. Unsigned packages are a real problem, but hating on community-maintained software is just weird. Most software in your local Linux distro's repository is maintained by a "community" that might just be one person working in their spare time. 3 (synt…

> And I pity anyone who miscounts spaces and accidentally puts in three spaces instead of four somewhere -- this can take hours to debug and track down. this is so hilariously wrong that it is clear that the author has never actually tried any of the things he complains about. Python 3.7.1 (default, Oct 22 2018, 10:41:28) [GCC 8.2.1 20180831] on linux Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more informat…

To back this up, I was at a place where vim on my Mac and the Windows editor on the machine of one of the people consuming my code would somehow munge the spacing (tabs-to-spaces, or summat).

Point is, I'd see this problem constantly until I figured it out. And not once did it take more than a few minutes to fix it because, as you point out, it shows you where the problem is. And if you use PyCharm, or VS Code with Python extension, or a raft of any other editors, it'll bark at you long before you try and run the code, with circles and arrows, and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining the problem.

So, yeah, the author is making shit up. And needs to learn about what the Tab key does.

Re: Reasons Python Sucks

#136

Post by TheCoelacanth »

brudgers wrote: post #115
CurtHagenlocher wrote: post #3

A number of these points seem like reasonable opinions to have. But two which had me questioning the breadth of the author's experience were "Most programming languages pass function parameters by value." and "In every other language, arrays are called 'arrays'. In Python, they are called 'lists'." To the author: 1. Java, JavaScript and C# all have types which are passed by reference. (They also have types which are…

What Java, JavaScript and C# call "arrays" are each very much like what Python calls "lists'. In particular the indexing after push() and pop() type operations and the bigO of indexing. More abstractly, Historically, in computing "list" connotes pointers and "array" connotes sequential memory. The connotations imply engineering tradeoffs. [1] "List" may make more sense for a beginning programmer. It is an arbitrary c…

Not true for Java or C#. In both of those languages, arrays are fixed-size and don't have anything like a push or pop operation. Both have an automatically resizing container backed by an array that is referred to as a list. Python's use of "list" matches the use in Java and C# perfectly.

Re: Reasons Python Sucks

#137

Post by computerfriend »

fhood wrote: post #118
closed wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I regularly wish python required some sort type indication for function parameters You can use type annotations, either via the builtin lib or 3rd party libs! https://docs.python.org/3/library/typing.html > do_x() if a.y() I feel this. You can use `a.y() and do_x()`, but I'm not sure how people would react :o

> You can use type annotations, either via the builtin lib or 3rd party libs! > https://docs.python.org/3/library/typing.html I know, but tragically, because I am not forced to, I never do. I do appreciate that feature though. Maybe this will be the impetus I need to start taking advantage of it.

I started doing this about a year ago and it has made me a better Python developer. Getting into the habit of always writing a type annotation was hard at first, but you quickly get used to it. It helps if you configure mypy to complain at you if the annotations are missing.

Re: Reasons Python Sucks

#139

Post by paavoova »

Not mentioned under quirks/syntax:

- Special-snowflake, verbose ternary syntax (expr if cond else expr)

- (De)evolution of language features over time, such as format strings (from "%s" % val to "{}".format(val), and now to format strings f"{val"

- Poor design decisions all around, and stubborn in its refusal to admit wrong, such as the sudden but long overdue addition of assignment expressions

- Lack of control flow like switch statements, leading to data-structure abuse e.g. via dictionaries

The recent addition of assignment expressions provoked much discussion and much effort into its proposals, but, outside of Python's echo chamber, it's a language feature that most other languages have, and that should have just been included from the beginning. Instead, decades after the fact, the language is tacking on the syntax and pretending it's some genius new feature.

Re: Reasons Python Sucks

#140

Post by monadgonad »

cschmidt wrote: post #68
qntty wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is python really meant to be a beginner-friendly language? I tend to think of it as lisp-without-parens, and lisp is not very beginner friendly.

It is usually the "first language" of choice these days, when teaching programming.

That does not mean beginner-friendliness is one of its design goals.
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