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Dotsies (2012)

dotsies.org

121–130 of 204 posts

Re: Dotsies (2012)

#121
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also Shavian and Quikscript for English, which handle the language phonetically. I think it's a big miss for any new writing system to keep a language with 38 or so sounds limited to 26 letters. Not to mention other languages that might want to use it.

This is a font, not a new writing system.

For many languages (though probably not English) you could likely hack something with clever use of ligatures.

Re: Dotsies (2012)

#122
post #118

The problem I see there is you think there is only English. While you may write "naïve" as "naive" and lose nothing, there are some other languages too and the advantage of Latin is that it's visual and Latin letters can be slightly changed to have something similar but different. Do you think "Fußgängerübergänge" can be read as "Fussgangerubergange" or "zażółć" as "zazolc"? (German and Polish respectively)

There was a thread here (found it) just the other day where Polish people specifically said "we don't use those accented characters any more because it's too hard on mobile and we don't need to" (heavy paraphrasing mine).

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18688619

Re: Dotsies (2012)

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was my favourite aspect of dotsies: that words began to have familiar shapes. I stopped needing to parse certain words because their shape was so unique and memorable. At the same time it would be interesting to see it implemented based on letter frequency rather than order in the alphabet. It was great fun to read!

Isn't that true for "normal" text too? Don't we skim text usually pretty quickly based on how the words look like, instead of reading every letter one by one?

Same is true for morse code sound patterns.

Re: Dotsies (2012)

#124
post #76

just use Chinese, it’s optimized for screen space (each character occupies a square, and has complex meaning of a word, and people read their shapes, rather than stroke by stroke )

>just use Chinese, it’s optimized for screen space ... [cite needed][original research?]

Well, for example, per Google Translate

Automobile

汽车

Reading chinese is basically the human version of attempting to read a .zip file.

Re: Dotsies (2012)

#126
post #75
post #49

Very interesting. It's definitely more compact but I would challenge the more readable claim. If you think about how the human vision system is constructed (similar to convnets in deep learning), the brain uses a hierarchy of constructs like circles, lines, corners, etc. Recognizing letters requires the triggering of multiple layers of these constructs. A dot, and another dot 1 pixel higher or lower is easy to get co…

> I'm not an expert on the vision system but I would think, sticking to at most 2 different locations instead of 5, and mixing in vertical lines, horizontal lines, diagonals, corners, and circles might be work exploring. What you proposed here turns out very similar to the elements of Korean Characters. As an East Asian who is native to Chinese Characters, two-dimensional symbols are always more appealing to me. I st…

Hangul (the Korean writing system) came to mind immediately for me too. I can't read Korean, but the writing system is very well designed, being phonetic and compact. It would be great to have something like that for written English.

Re: Dotsies (2012)

#128

This is interesting for a lot of reasons. It’s almost like a compression scheme for text as opposed to an image. The question is, is it lossless or lossy? What is the Shannon entropy for this set of symbols?

This doesn't compress the text any more than reducing font size does. The Shannon entropy is about the frequency with which each symbol occurs, not about what the symbols look like. This is just an alternate font and does not actually change symbol frequency, so the Shannon entropy will be the same as any other font.

It's lossless unless you consider the possibility of symbol confusion, as it's pretty easy to produce strings that appear identical but are different, like how O and 0 are easily confused in many fonts.

Re: Dotsies (2012)

#129
post #75
post #49

Very interesting. It's definitely more compact but I would challenge the more readable claim. If you think about how the human vision system is constructed (similar to convnets in deep learning), the brain uses a hierarchy of constructs like circles, lines, corners, etc. Recognizing letters requires the triggering of multiple layers of these constructs. A dot, and another dot 1 pixel higher or lower is easy to get co…

> I'm not an expert on the vision system but I would think, sticking to at most 2 different locations instead of 5, and mixing in vertical lines, horizontal lines, diagonals, corners, and circles might be work exploring. What you proposed here turns out very similar to the elements of Korean Characters. As an East Asian who is native to Chinese Characters, two-dimensional symbols are always more appealing to me. I st…

I don't think Hangul-like writing systems are good fits for English however. Korean has a relatively simple syllable structure /C(G)VC/ and Hangul thoroughly exploits this trait. English does not; consonant clusters like "strike" are common, and every Hangul-like alternative to Latin alphabet for Korean was jarring to my eyes partly for that reason, e.g. [1]. It would be a bit more easier to work with word-based typography, i.e. logogram; refer to [2] and [3] for such attempts. [3] might be an interesting trade-off between logogram and phonetic alphabet.

[1] http://www.omniglot.com/conscripts/engul.htm

[2] https://www.zompist.com/yingzi/yingzi.htm

[3] http://www.omniglot.com/conscripts/swc.htm

Re: Dotsies (2012)

#130
post #118

The problem I see there is you think there is only English. While you may write "naïve" as "naive" and lose nothing, there are some other languages too and the advantage of Latin is that it's visual and Latin letters can be slightly changed to have something similar but different. Do you think "Fußgängerübergänge" can be read as "Fussgangerubergange" or "zażółć" as "zazolc"? (German and Polish respectively)

While I do get your point, Germans specifically handle the lack of umlauts (e.g. in digital spaces that don't allow them) by simply substituting "ä" with "ae", "ö" with "oe" and "ü" with "ue". Similarly, "ß" can be replaced with "ss" without losing much readability at all.
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