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Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

theintercept.com

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Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#181

Post by hopler »

jayd16 wrote: post #56
mcqueenjordan wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google's previous stance was much more understandable: Let the Great Firewall do its work and we'll do ours.

If that's acceptable, then why was this unacceptable? Isn't this project mostly about figuring out whats blocked and caching that?

Dragonfly is about making Google an extension of the Chinese surveillance state, collecting personal information about Chinese people committing thoughtcrimes in google search, and giving that information to Chinese Communist Party

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#182

Post by V-eHGsd_ »

russdpale wrote: post #135
srkmno wrote: post #98

Never really understood why Google running a search engine in China is controversial, it wouldn't be the first US company doing business there, nor the first to censor due to local laws (Apple censors their app store etc) and it's not like tiananmen square queries will be the bulk of their traffic.

I don't know how old you are, but google blossomed under the guise of "do no evil", that is why its controversial.

yep, "don't be evil". and humorously/tellingly that phrase was removed from the code of conduct just this past may.

https://gizmodo.com/google-removes-nearly-all-mentions-of-do...

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#183

Post by romeisendcoming »

snaky wrote: post #140
sunstone wrote: post #61

It seems Google has now strayed far from the "don't be evil" path. First came the illegal agreement not to hire from other tech companies, then the "say nothing to no one" employment agreement all employees have to sign and now this product the help Mr. Xi put the jack boot to every neck in China. I've probably missed a few, please fill in the blanks if you can. To a large extent Google's business, like Enron's befor…

Google's business depends largely on technologies and useful tools for the users and customers. The trust is somewhat involved too - users think Google won't do horrible things with their data - and Google won't (selling the data to the advertising industry is not considered horrible by Google' users). Customers think Google won't do horrible things to them too, as do shareholders, and they are obviously right. So a…

Well, 'horrible' is subjective. Nobody really talks about the google agenda of replacing all the 'old, unsafe, inferior' tech and methodologies with their own versions and methods.

Google wants a world they build and they don't really think anything could be better or as good. That is horrifying to me.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#184

Post by mda »

V-eHGsd_ wrote: post #182
russdpale wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how old you are, but google blossomed under the guise of "do no evil", that is why its controversial.

yep, "don't be evil". and humorously/tellingly that phrase was removed from the code of conduct just this past may. https://gizmodo.com/google-removes-nearly-all-mentions-of-do...

It is not removed.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#185

Post by andromeduck »

Despegar wrote: post #15
alasdair_ wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>iMessage and FaceTime are end-to-end encrypted and work in China. There's different rules for Apple. Does it count as "encrypted" if the keys have been given to the people spying on you?

The point of end-to-end encryption is that Apple doesn't have any keys to give.

imessage also uses rsa 1024 which is very much within the range practical brute force these days

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#186

Post by zelon88 »

saulrh wrote: post #178
zelon88 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about; be good in the beginning and then stay good even when you don't have to anymore?

There's no such thing as omniscience or perfect prescience and you will always screw up eventually. There's no physical law that says that people can only crucify you if you actually do something bad. Every one of your competitors is doing their level best to set up damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't fork and you will never outplay all of them all of the time. Nothing says that there's always a right answer that is…

Hey it's their label, not mine. I guess in that sense then yes, "good" it subject to opinion.

But so is "innocent" and "guilty," which is why we have laws to define the two.

Google realizes that "good" is subjective. That's why they have QA, privacy teams, security teams, ect. They rely on a consensus of these groups to define what "good" means to Google using a variety of perspectives.

Choosing to ignore literally all of these mechanisms not only means that something isn't "good," but it's also a pretty clear indicator that the people behind it know it's actually bad.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#187

Post by justicezyx »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #136
justicezyx wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Chinese are putting people into concentration camps on the basis of their ethnicity or religion, many are dying and their organs are being harvested A few glossy points are made here that rides on a racial or national stereotype. 1. It was Chinese government put people in concentration camp, not Chinese. In the current political atmosphere, I am very cautious to draw this line as a Chinese myself, for the fear…

#1 is a good point, but in my experience, 'The Governments' approach to Tibetans, Uighurs etc. has the general tacit support of 'The Chinese' and by that I should say 'Han'. Han ethno-nationalism is total and out in the open, it's normative. I suggest most of non-minority China actually supports much of this. As far as #2, it's splitting hairs. People are put in jail because of their ethnicity or faith, and one way o…

The link you provided is for a Japanese budasim presit who still has hairs. Could you at least provide some information with first hand authenticity, like from survivor and/or those close to them or the ones died in the camp?

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#188

Post by mda »

snaky wrote: post #140
sunstone wrote: post #61

It seems Google has now strayed far from the "don't be evil" path. First came the illegal agreement not to hire from other tech companies, then the "say nothing to no one" employment agreement all employees have to sign and now this product the help Mr. Xi put the jack boot to every neck in China. I've probably missed a few, please fill in the blanks if you can. To a large extent Google's business, like Enron's befor…

Google's business depends largely on technologies and useful tools for the users and customers. The trust is somewhat involved too - users think Google won't do horrible things with their data - and Google won't (selling the data to the advertising industry is not considered horrible by Google' users). Customers think Google won't do horrible things to them too, as do shareholders, and they are obviously right. So a…

What data is sold to advertisers?

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#189

Post by andromeduck »

hopler wrote: post #181
jayd16 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's acceptable, then why was this unacceptable? Isn't this project mostly about figuring out whats blocked and caching that?

Dragonfly is about making Google an extension of the Chinese surveillance state, collecting personal information about Chinese people committing thoughtcrimes in google search, and giving that information to Chinese Communist Party

Do you think that bing and baidu and whatever else aren't doing the same?! Google not entering isn't going to change that except now they get less of a say because they're on the sidelines.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#190

Post by mda »

izacus wrote: post #5

Great! So will Apple employees walk out next in protest of Apple assisting Chinese government by giving them iMessage and iCloud data? Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-apple-icloud-insigh...

I dont think Apple employees can do such a thing anyway. Profile of companies and employees are quite different.
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