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Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

theintercept.com

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Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#121

Post by ngcc_hk »

_8j50 wrote: post #67
aaomidi wrote: post #33

So many people here only look at the business cost of what Google wanted to do and don't care about the human cost. It's great that you were born in a western country with a good understanding of freedom and your rights. The majority of the world don't have these conditions. Your "business" decision effects billions of people in the world. I was born and mostly raised in Iran. "Business" decisions from companies that…

I get what you're saying but a country is sovreign from othets and corporations don't get to decide what's acceptable in a country. It comes down to this imo: will the product be used in ways that are morally wrong? Or will it be used in ways which are legally wrong or socially unacceptable? I agree with you that a company should not sell their products to enable a moral wrong in any country. However, free speech and…

Right is right. Socrates died for that. Not new.

We fight for the other people right to speak even if we disagree so one day we are all free. And when idea’s time has come ... let us start earlier

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#122

Post by tomatotomato37 »

frabbit wrote: post #81
tomatotomato37 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, never said I didn't approve of China's shite privacy & labor laws. That's why I always thought any minimum wage or labor law needs an accompanying tariff, to prevent manufacturers from just making the situation worse by externalizing their shit overseas

I like that idea. After briefly searching for possible discussion/implementation of it I was unable to find any. Do you have any useful keywords or phrases I could use for such searches?

Unfortunately I don't; it's mostly a homebrewed concept after seeing too many arguments justifing outsourcing our everything because of high labor and environmental costs.

I don't care if your for or against those types of laws, but if we go through the legislative effort to give up the economical efficiency for the social good and pass those laws, than you damn well better contribute to said social good if you want to do business on our shores

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#123

Post by analog31 »

_8j50 wrote: post #67
aaomidi wrote: post #33

So many people here only look at the business cost of what Google wanted to do and don't care about the human cost. It's great that you were born in a western country with a good understanding of freedom and your rights. The majority of the world don't have these conditions. Your "business" decision effects billions of people in the world. I was born and mostly raised in Iran. "Business" decisions from companies that…

I get what you're saying but a country is sovreign from othets and corporations don't get to decide what's acceptable in a country. It comes down to this imo: will the product be used in ways that are morally wrong? Or will it be used in ways which are legally wrong or socially unacceptable? I agree with you that a company should not sell their products to enable a moral wrong in any country. However, free speech and…

>>> I get what you're saying but a country is sovreign from othets and corporations don't get to decide what's acceptable in a country.

Who does? How were those people chosen?

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#124

Post by manfredo »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #120
QML wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you are one of the few people who support a re-entry of Google into China, can I ask a question? There is no doubt that a cultural gap exists between Chinese and Americans, and their perceptions of the current Chinese government. Should a foreign company like Google adopt the culture of the country they're entering, or maintain the culture of where they're headquartered? From what I've read, the main opposition…

This is an unfair argument because it's not a matter of 'culture' it's a broader set of ethical issues at stake. The Chinese are putting people into concentration camps on the basis of their ethnicity or religion, many are dying and their organs are being harvested. If the Western press weren't so hypocritically afraid of speaking out - this would be a huge global story, it's a really big deal. This is getting into h…

I think pointing to different culture and history is a valid point of discussion. The point of view of a lot of the mainland Chinese people I've spoken to is that the post-Mao CCP has done a lot of bad, but also an immense amount of good for China as a whole. Compare the modern CCP with all of China's past governments of the last two centuries, and it's unambiguously better than Mao, the warlords, or the late Quing dynasty. Sure, maybe China would have been better off if the KMT won the civil war, but we can't change history.

The history of what did happen is that after Mao the country went from struggling to feed most of it's people to what is likely the 2nd most powerful country on Earth. It went from GDP per capitalism of $1,000 in 1970 to $8,000 in 2010. China singlehandedly halved global poverty in doing so. While some of it's actions are appalling to foreigners, they are tolerated for historical reasons. E.g. distrust of organized religion stems from repeated religious rebellions that killed tens of millions of people, so many Chinese see the suppression of religion as a necessary measure to ensure social order. In that sense many Chinese have the same underlying ethical framework (don't needlessly cause harm, try to better the lives of everyday people, etc.), but the lessons history taught the country means that they pursue these ideals in a different way, and opt to make different tradeoffs when balancing different needs. While I am indeed apalled by some of the CCP's actions, I can empathize to a degree as to why Chinese people would still have a positive view of it overall.

Of course, this is coming from a Westerner summarizing my interactions so it obviously risks putting words in other people's mouths.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#125

Post by eganist »

QML wrote: post #114
yadongwen wrote: post #79

This is a great loss to Chinese people who have to use worse products such as Baidu and so.com. I was hoping Google's re-entering could result in a better Internet (or Intranet) ecosystem in China but alas...

Since you are one of the few people who support a re-entry of Google into China, can I ask a question? There is no doubt that a cultural gap exists between Chinese and Americans, and their perceptions of the current Chinese government. Should a foreign company like Google adopt the culture of the country they're entering, or maintain the culture of where they're headquartered? From what I've read, the main opposition…

> the main opposition is only coming from Americans... oddly enough.

Precisely because Americans are concerned that the technology as prototyped in the Chinese market might subsequently be applied in a dark-future American market.

It's not farfetched considering the current political climate here.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#126

Post by president »

sftwds wrote: post #32
president wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure there is weight in having Apple on your resume but Google engineers are generally sought after for SE positions. I hear managers pining over Google candidates all the time at my company.

As a Silicon Valley outsider that surprises me. I've heard that interviews at all the FAANG companies are all difficult (as an aside, why is Microsoft never in that list??). For organizations the size of Google and Apple, there are bound to be employees who squeaked by their interviews and would not have been hired at the other company. Why does "Google" on a resume look better than "Apple"? Is the Google interview t…

In a nutshell, Google has a more rigorous interview process with less loopholes. I believe this is primarily due to the fact that they have a hiring committee and paper trail for approving hires rather than giving full control to hiring managers.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#127

Post by purple_ducks »

guelo wrote: post #76
_8j50 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get what you're saying but a country is sovreign from othets and corporations don't get to decide what's acceptable in a country. It comes down to this imo: will the product be used in ways that are morally wrong? Or will it be used in ways which are legally wrong or socially unacceptable? I agree with you that a company should not sell their products to enable a moral wrong in any country. However, free speech and…

> It certainly isn't a human right. Freedom of expression is in Article 19 of the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights. http://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/

Not debating whether or not it is a right but the UN isn't the world's moral authority.

I view them as an un-elected advisory group.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#128

Post by shanghaiaway »

srkmno wrote: post #98

Never really understood why Google running a search engine in China is controversial, it wouldn't be the first US company doing business there, nor the first to censor due to local laws (Apple censors their app store etc) and it's not like tiananmen square queries will be the bulk of their traffic.

It's controversial because Google made such a big deal of not running a search engine in China, and built their corporate brand on top of that conviction.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#129

Post by [deleted] »

pdkl95 wrote: post #60
president wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure there is weight in having Apple on your resume but Google engineers are generally sought after for SE positions. I hear managers pining over Google candidates all the time at my company.

Arguing about which company's name looks better on a resume is an irrelevant distraction that avoids addressing the actual problem: standing up to fight against something may require personal sacrifices. In general, anybody with salary has the opportunity to quit. This is certainly true for most tech jobs. I understand if someone working variable part time[1] hours for minimum wage cannot afford to lose their job. Th…

[deleted]

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#130

Post by president »

scrumbledober wrote: post #28
sftwds wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assumed that Apple has very similar weight on a resume as Google, is that not correct?

perhaps not quite the same level but I would assume anyone with any FAANG on their resume wouldn't be in the category of "need their job."

Not all FAANG are created equal
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