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Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

theintercept.com

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Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#111

Post by yqx »

_8j50 wrote: post #67
aaomidi wrote: post #33

So many people here only look at the business cost of what Google wanted to do and don't care about the human cost. It's great that you were born in a western country with a good understanding of freedom and your rights. The majority of the world don't have these conditions. Your "business" decision effects billions of people in the world. I was born and mostly raised in Iran. "Business" decisions from companies that…

I get what you're saying but a country is sovreign from othets and corporations don't get to decide what's acceptable in a country. It comes down to this imo: will the product be used in ways that are morally wrong? Or will it be used in ways which are legally wrong or socially unacceptable? I agree with you that a company should not sell their products to enable a moral wrong in any country. However, free speech and…

Your post introduces an imaginary issue. The question is not whether a company "gets to decide social norms", the question is whether a company gets to decide whether it agrees with terms set by a government that conflict with the social norms of the company. The the answer to that question certainly is positive.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#112

Post by tivert »

patrickaljord wrote: post #105
reaperducer wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has a very significant manufactoring presence in China, so unfortunately they can't cleanly separate from China like Google can without risking retaliation Apple can walk away from China whenever it wants to. Apple is the one company in the entire world best equipped with the cash to make this kind of public stand. But it doesn't want to because doing so will cost a lot of that money. The only thing stopping Ap…

> Disclosure: Apple shareholder, with morality, but not enough shares for Apple to care. If you really cared about this, shouldn't you sell your Apple stocks and invest in a company with morals compatible with yours instead? Otherwise, you're part of the problem as you're willing to profit from China just like Apple.

> If you really cared about this, shouldn't you sell your Apple stocks and invest in a company with morals compatible with yours instead? Otherwise, you're part of the problem as you're willing to profit from China just like Apple.

Actually, if you really cared about this, I think it'd be better buy more Apple stock and start making a fuss in their shareholder meetings.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#113

Post by snaky »

whoisjuan wrote: post #106
snaky wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe that's an opportunity for Yandex https://yandex.ru/jobs/vacancies/global/head_chinaoperations...

How good is Yandex indexing and search technology?...My guess is that probably not even close to Google, and heavily optimized for slavic inflections and cyrilic.

Why do you think so? Yandex has 2% search market share in South Korea, that's not big but Baidu has less than 5% there, so it's comparable.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#114

Post by QML »

yadongwen wrote: post #79

This is a great loss to Chinese people who have to use worse products such as Baidu and so.com. I was hoping Google's re-entering could result in a better Internet (or Intranet) ecosystem in China but alas...

Since you are one of the few people who support a re-entry of Google into China, can I ask a question? There is no doubt that a cultural gap exists between Chinese and Americans, and their perceptions of the current Chinese government. Should a foreign company like Google adopt the culture of the country they're entering, or maintain the culture of where they're headquartered?

From what I've read, the main opposition is only coming from Americans... oddly enough.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#115

Post by 706f6f70 »

fatjokes wrote: post #40

"Traditional" companies like Amazon, Apple and Oracle heavily punish employees for banding together, freely communicating and protesting like this, so they would never have the opportunity to protest controversial projects like this. I fear the main lesson corporate leaders will take from this is to lockdown on employee freedom.

I think the main lesson from Google was make sure the mainstream media agrees with your point prior to protesting it. If the media does not agree, they will ask for your head(s) and threaten to boycott your employer until it is delivered on a silver platter.

The number of people protesting is inconsequential as platters can be built to accommodate a near infinite number of heads.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#116

Post by QML »

izacus wrote: post #5

Great! So will Apple employees walk out next in protest of Apple assisting Chinese government by giving them iMessage and iCloud data? Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-apple-icloud-insigh...

A note that Tim Cook is in favor in doing business in China:

"Your choice is, do you participate or do you stand on the sideline and yell at how things should be," Mr. Cook said. "My own view very strongly is you show up and you participate, you get in the arena, because nothing ever changes from the sideline." [1]

[1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/apples-tim-cook-no-point-yellin...

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#117

Post by jeklj »

iaw wrote: post #80

> Scott Beaumont, Google’s leader in China and a key architect of the Dragonfly project, “did not feel that the security, privacy, and legal teams should be able to question his product decisions,” If I was more eloquent I'd draw some analogy between Scott Beaumont's behavior and China...

Companies like them want employees who think for themselves and work hard to change the world... But only within implicitly-defined areas.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#118

Post by ngcc_hk »

QML wrote: post #114
yadongwen wrote: post #79

This is a great loss to Chinese people who have to use worse products such as Baidu and so.com. I was hoping Google's re-entering could result in a better Internet (or Intranet) ecosystem in China but alas...

Since you are one of the few people who support a re-entry of Google into China, can I ask a question? There is no doubt that a cultural gap exists between Chinese and Americans, and their perceptions of the current Chinese government. Should a foreign company like Google adopt the culture of the country they're entering, or maintain the culture of where they're headquartered? From what I've read, the main opposition…

Come from Hong Kong as well. Please do not help a totalitarian state.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#119

Post by ngcc_hk »

jjcc wrote: post #107
yadongwen wrote: post #79

This is a great loss to Chinese people who have to use worse products such as Baidu and so.com. I was hoping Google's re-entering could result in a better Internet (or Intranet) ecosystem in China but alas...

Agree. A lot of Chinese like Google more than Baidu but they have no choice. I have no problem to use Google as I'm now in China but a lot of normal people don't know how to get around GFW.

It is illegal. That is the essence of rule by law ....

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#120

Post by sonnyblarney »

QML wrote: post #114
yadongwen wrote: post #79

This is a great loss to Chinese people who have to use worse products such as Baidu and so.com. I was hoping Google's re-entering could result in a better Internet (or Intranet) ecosystem in China but alas...

Since you are one of the few people who support a re-entry of Google into China, can I ask a question? There is no doubt that a cultural gap exists between Chinese and Americans, and their perceptions of the current Chinese government. Should a foreign company like Google adopt the culture of the country they're entering, or maintain the culture of where they're headquartered? From what I've read, the main opposition…

This is an unfair argument because it's not a matter of 'culture' it's a broader set of ethical issues at stake.

The Chinese are putting people into concentration camps on the basis of their ethnicity or religion, many are dying and their organs are being harvested.

If the Western press weren't so hypocritically afraid of speaking out - this would be a huge global story, it's a really big deal. This is getting into holocaust territory in 2018 for gosh sakes.

And it's definitely more than Americans speaking out.

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