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Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

theintercept.com

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Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#81

Post by frabbit »

tomatotomato37 wrote: post #22
izacus wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah well, it's fine to violate human rights if it costs you money then. And as long as you have an apple in the logo I guess?

Hey, never said I didn't approve of China's shite privacy & labor laws. That's why I always thought any minimum wage or labor law needs an accompanying tariff, to prevent manufacturers from just making the situation worse by externalizing their shit overseas

I like that idea. After briefly searching for possible discussion/implementation of it I was unable to find any. Do you have any useful keywords or phrases I could use for such searches?

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#82

Post by shaki-dora »

user2426679 wrote: post #30
Despegar wrote: post #2

Great reporting by Gallagher. He should win a Pulitzer for his reporting on Dragonfly. The fact that Pichai refused to say they wouldn't re-enter China shows this is probably just a pause until things die down.

Agreed that this is a great example by Gallagher of all-too-rare "real" journalism. The unfortunate thing is that the headline of this article should probably be "Google's Secret China Project Now Even More Secret."

How would that work? A secret search engine? Or Google pretending to give in under pressure from employees, then turn around and tell them (and everyone else) "haha, we lied" and launching it? How would that not create far larger harm than just not giving in in the first place?

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#83

Post by cromwellian »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #3
Despegar wrote: post #2

Great reporting by Gallagher. He should win a Pulitzer for his reporting on Dragonfly. The fact that Pichai refused to say they wouldn't re-enter China shows this is probably just a pause until things die down.

Indeed, every part of this story really happened because of Ryan's coverage. His reveal is what brought it to the attention of other Google employees, members of Congress, and human rights groups. And eventually, it appears key information he released is what also led to it's effective closure. It's a true testament to the power of quality investigative journalism.

You mean, it really happened because a brave Google employee leaked it. If this employee had leaked the same memo to Wikileaks, or the Washington Post, or any other mechanism of widespread dissemination would have been the same.

This is like giving credit to Glenn Greenwald instead of Edward Snowden, or Reality Winner, or Chelsea Manning. The real people who take the risks end up in the back, while the reporters end up with all the prestige on the stage.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#84

Post by glenrivard »

rock_hard wrote: post #11
polskibus wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a public announcement/commitment saying that Apple does not share any data with China?

They shared the iCloud private keys with the Chinese government to get permission to operate there...just google it

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-apple-icloud-insigh... Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#85

Post by praptak »

yadongwen wrote: post #79

This is a great loss to Chinese people who have to use worse products such as Baidu and so.com. I was hoping Google's re-entering could result in a better Internet (or Intranet) ecosystem in China but alas...

Maybe Chinese people could take it up with their government?

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#86

Post by cromwellian »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #37
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hypocritical to attack Google for moving back to China after pulling out 7 years ago while other companies have been there continuously for years without backlash.

It's not hypocritical, because taking issue with Google's behavior and cheering for them losing here doesn't mean we support other companies still being in China. "But what about Apple" is a very specific conversational tactic, accurately named: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Except that I never see any posts from you decrying Apple or any other company except Google. Google isn't operating in China right now, their "behavior" is that of having worked on something that didn't ship and apparently will never ship, as opposed to other companies actively collaborating and shipping things which harm Chinese citizens.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#87

Post by [deleted] »

aaomidi wrote: post #33

So many people here only look at the business cost of what Google wanted to do and don't care about the human cost. It's great that you were born in a western country with a good understanding of freedom and your rights. The majority of the world don't have these conditions. Your "business" decision effects billions of people in the world. I was born and mostly raised in Iran. "Business" decisions from companies that…

[deleted]

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#88

Post by PavlovsCat »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #35
pfortuny wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are talking about google here.

It's hypocritical to attack Google for moving back to China after pulling out 7 years ago while other companies have been there continuously for years without backlash.

Hypocritical for who? For other companies, for Google employee, for commenters on this site?

Who attacked Google in this thread? Who, precisely, is being hypocritical?

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#89

Post by mlindner »

izacus wrote: post #5

Great! So will Apple employees walk out next in protest of Apple assisting Chinese government by giving them iMessage and iCloud data? Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-apple-icloud-insigh...

Apple doesn't store iMessage messages in the cloud. Those are stored on the device and have end to end encryption. That has always been true and will continue to be true.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#90

Post by longerthoughts »

yongjik wrote: post #47
izacus wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah well, it's fine to violate human rights if it costs you money then. And as long as you have an apple in the logo I guess?

At the risk of sounding whataboutist, you could say the same thing for pretty much everything you buy, starting with your gas, electricity, and everything that's manufactured using them. It doesn't absolve Apple or other companies (or me), but it does make Apple an odd target to fix on.

If you want to make a point about responsible corporate governance it probably does make sense to focus on one of the largest companies in the world, especially one with an exceptional amount of cash that makes it better prepared than others to suffer the consequences of a conscience-driven, money-losing decision.

The reality is there's no way the company can make that change on the basis of "it's the right thing to do" without also being able to convincingly argue that it's better for long term shareholder value.

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