Ask HN: Freelancers quoting large jobs

#1

Post by newzucanuze » Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 9:32 PM UTC

Hello fellow freelancers of HN. One thing that I always struggle with is estimates/quotes for large unwieldy projects. In particular, there are 2 opposing forces:

Force 1: Even for very well-defined projects, it's extremely difficult to accurately predict how long a large project will take. Not to mention all the minor additions and adjustments that will be made along the way. It seems like giving a hard quote is next to impossible and the way to go is an estimate for hourly work.

Force 2: Charging hourly. I typically avoid charging hourly, instead giving quotes based on my internal rate of $100/hr. Although charging hourly can be preferable, see issue 1, I feel that most clients would balk at such an hourly rate and would prefer to pay some offshore developers $30/hr and hope for the best. On the other hand, if I quote $10,000 for a job that's expected to take 100 hours, they will generally feel the quote is fair.

How do you go about quoting/estimating large projects?

Re: Ask HN: Freelancers quoting large jobs

#2

Post by siquick » Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 10:05 PM UTC

Unfortunately, this is an age-old problem. If you don't think they like your hourly rate then charge per milestone.

Milestone A = $2500

Milestone B = $2500

Milestone C = $2500

Milestone D = $2500

Include an exit clause for both parties after each milestone in case the project just isn't working out (i.e. you're spending way more time on it than you expected).

Re: Ask HN: Freelancers quoting large jobs

#3

Post by burakaltin » Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 10:21 PM UTC

I try to calculate my hours then multiply it 1.5. But it's never easy. Clients want to change a lot on the way. Everytime I have to explain them and revise my offer. I try to put milestones to keep track.

Re: Ask HN: Freelancers quoting large jobs

#4

Post by jaredcwhite » Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 10:29 PM UTC

"clients would balk at…"

Your goal is to find clients who will value your work, your time, your reputation, and the value you bring to their business. I have no qualms quoting a high hourly rate because I see it as a way to weed out bad clients. If that proves challenging from a sales standpoint, perhaps raise your rate and then come up with some BS reason why you can offer them a discount (which brings you back to the rate you actually want). They think they're getting a deal, you're still happy with your rate, everybody wins. :)

Re: Ask HN: Freelancers quoting large jobs

#5

Post by taprun » Tue, Dec 18, 2018, 3:30 AM UTC

If there is great uncertainty, both you and your client will likely find great value in pursuing a roadmapping and discovery mini-project. [0] Also, don't forget that even big unwieldy projects can be broken into smaller more manageable milestones/sub-projects.

[0] https://taprun.com/newsletter/12#question

Re: Ask HN: Freelancers quoting large jobs

#6

Post by csomar » Tue, Dec 18, 2018, 10:48 AM UTC

> I feel that most clients would balk at such an hourly rate and would prefer to pay some offshore developers $30/hr and hope for the best

Then you are not providing enough value. Or if you are providing $100/hr value, then stick to your guns. I had a client return and I charged him almost x5 the American rates (I'm offshore!). His US consultancy could not deliver.

Re: Ask HN: Freelancers quoting large jobs

#7

Post by BrandonBradley » Tue, Dec 18, 2018, 2:15 PM UTC

jaredcwhite wrote: post #4

"clients would balk at…" Your goal is to find clients who will value your work, your time, your reputation, and the value you bring to their business. I have no qualms quoting a high hourly rate because I see it as a way to weed out bad clients. If that proves challenging from a sales standpoint, perhaps raise your rate and then come up with some BS reason why you can offer them a discount (which brings you back to t…

I've tried the 'x% discount for y guaranteed amount of hours' pitch before. It doesn't really work; most potential clients are still thinking about the '$z/hour' that you told them before the pitch.

Re: Ask HN: Freelancers quoting large jobs

#8

Post by fakeElonMusk » Tue, Dec 18, 2018, 4:05 PM UTC

Nothing you can do about "would prefer to pay some offshore developers $30/hr and hope for the best" and you don't want that client anyway. I only do hourly work and have never had any issues - mostly because projects are never really well defined and clients know that (good ones at least). Maybe try a weekly rate? Seems to work for some people.

Re: Ask HN: Freelancers quoting large jobs

#9

Post by jamestimmins » Wed, Dec 19, 2018, 12:09 AM UTC

Your value isn't just the code you write. One of the biggest benefits you have (presumably) is that they can easily communicate with you and might even be able to meet in person. Frequent communication and the ability to manage expectations is why you can justify $100/hr or more. You're not just providing them with code; you're providing them with confidence that you are a low-risk option.