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Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

theintercept.com

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Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#41

Post by ggggtez »

tomatotomato37 wrote: post #7
izacus wrote: post #5

Great! So will Apple employees walk out next in protest of Apple assisting Chinese government by giving them iMessage and iCloud data? Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-apple-icloud-insigh...

Apple has a very significant manufactoring presence in China, so unfortunately they can't cleanly separate from China like Google can without risking retaliation

The only unique thing here is Google officially left China years ago, while other companies never did. Leaving China is a choice any company can make, and Apple could do it too. It's not like China is the only country in the world with workers or factories. Other countries would love for Apple to bring jobs to them.

The decision isn't free, and that is the problem everyone is pointing out. You can't expect companies to "do the right thing" when it gets in the way of profit. The only way to make that happen is to put massive PR pressure on them to do "the right thing" whatever you believe that to be.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#42

Post by glenrivard »

tomatotomato37 wrote: post #7
izacus wrote: post #5

Great! So will Apple employees walk out next in protest of Apple assisting Chinese government by giving them iMessage and iCloud data? Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-apple-icloud-insigh...

Apple has a very significant manufactoring presence in China, so unfortunately they can't cleanly separate from China like Google can without risking retaliation

What? Apple does NOT have to make phones in China. It is a big world. They chose to as they chose to give the China government their user data.

"Campaign targets Apple over privacy betrayal for Chinese iCloud users"

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/03/apple-privacy...

Versus Google picked up and left China in 2010 and walked away from billions.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#43

Post by CharlesW »

reaperducer wrote: post #38
tomatotomato37 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has a very significant manufactoring presence in China, so unfortunately they can't cleanly separate from China like Google can without risking retaliation

Apple has a very significant manufactoring presence in China, so unfortunately they can't cleanly separate from China like Google can without risking retaliation Apple can walk away from China whenever it wants to. Apple is the one company in the entire world best equipped with the cash to make this kind of public stand. But it doesn't want to because doing so will cost a lot of that money. The only thing stopping Ap…

> Apple can walk away from China whenever it wants to.

Not unless they've spent the last decade building a secret duplicate supply chain ecosystem.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#44

Post by rjf72 »

sfilargi wrote: post #16
dmitrygr wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> His reveal is what brought it to > the attention of other Google > employees Sad truth. And yet, >

Don't consume the corporate cool-aid. Google, and for that matter any other company, is not its employees, it is its stockholders.

I would agree with you in general but this is probably not the best example of it. Sergey Brin and Larry Page own a majority of the voting shares at Google. So even though it's technically a public company, it's still for all intents and purposes their company. It's the same story with Zuckerberg and Facebook which is why things like 'shareholders calling for Zuckerberg to be replaced' don't really mean anything directly. If every single shareholder except Zuckerberg voted to replace him, he stays. Consequently the actions and behaviors of these companies strongly reflect the views and desires of these individuals.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#45

Post by _iyig »

aaomidi wrote: post #33

So many people here only look at the business cost of what Google wanted to do and don't care about the human cost. It's great that you were born in a western country with a good understanding of freedom and your rights. The majority of the world don't have these conditions. Your "business" decision effects billions of people in the world. I was born and mostly raised in Iran. "Business" decisions from companies that…

What is DPI equipment? I’m not familiar with the acronym.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#46

Post by gresrun »

_iyig wrote: post #45
aaomidi wrote: post #33

So many people here only look at the business cost of what Google wanted to do and don't care about the human cost. It's great that you were born in a western country with a good understanding of freedom and your rights. The majority of the world don't have these conditions. Your "business" decision effects billions of people in the world. I was born and mostly raised in Iran. "Business" decisions from companies that…

What is DPI equipment? I’m not familiar with the acronym.

Deep Packet Inspection [0]

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_packet_inspection

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#47

Post by yongjik »

izacus wrote: post #17
tomatotomato37 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has a very significant manufactoring presence in China, so unfortunately they can't cleanly separate from China like Google can without risking retaliation

Ah well, it's fine to violate human rights if it costs you money then. And as long as you have an apple in the logo I guess?

At the risk of sounding whataboutist, you could say the same thing for pretty much everything you buy, starting with your gas, electricity, and everything that's manufactured using them.

It doesn't absolve Apple or other companies (or me), but it does make Apple an odd target to fix on.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#48

Post by MrOwen »

_iyig wrote: post #45
aaomidi wrote: post #33

So many people here only look at the business cost of what Google wanted to do and don't care about the human cost. It's great that you were born in a western country with a good understanding of freedom and your rights. The majority of the world don't have these conditions. Your "business" decision effects billions of people in the world. I was born and mostly raised in Iran. "Business" decisions from companies that…

What is DPI equipment? I’m not familiar with the acronym.

I believe that is "deep packet inspection". So looking at the contents of a packet rather than just the information found in the header. Pretty sure the Great Firewall makes extensive use of DPI to restrict its citizen's internet freedoms.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#49

Post by [deleted] »

_iyig wrote: post #45
aaomidi wrote: post #33

So many people here only look at the business cost of what Google wanted to do and don't care about the human cost. It's great that you were born in a western country with a good understanding of freedom and your rights. The majority of the world don't have these conditions. Your "business" decision effects billions of people in the world. I was born and mostly raised in Iran. "Business" decisions from companies that…

What is DPI equipment? I’m not familiar with the acronym.

[deleted]

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#50

Post by bitL »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #6
izacus wrote: post #5

Great! So will Apple employees walk out next in protest of Apple assisting Chinese government by giving them iMessage and iCloud data? Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-apple-icloud-insigh...

Unlike Dragonfly, that actually launched. There was no reported dissent from Apple employees before or after launch. What are they waiting for? The workers at Google who protested despite the loss in value of their equity should be commended.

Maybe:

1. the ones expressing dissent were caught in internal Apple network and subsequently quietly laid off for whatever official reason, preemptively

2. reporting such news could cost a reporter highly in the future; surely getting no access to latest Apple stuff but other SV companies are watching as well

3. "can do no wrong" culture

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