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Acne vulgaris: a disease of Western civilization (2002)

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Re: Acne vulgaris: a disease of Western civilization (2002)

#41
post #39
post #7

I read lots of research papers about acne and I tried many things including diets, removing dairy, removing sweets, changing pillow sheet daily, many kinds of anti acne treatments. The only thing that worked was roaccutane. After the treatment it slowly comes back so I beat it permanently with low-dosing (a 10 or 20mg pill every now and then) I realize there must be a reason deep down that caused it. Typically dermat…

I've been on accutane 3 times in my life. My family has a history of severe nodular acne. My grandfather, mother, and my siblings all suffered from it. My brother had it the worst, but I still had it quite bad. I have facial scars from it. It can be quite traumatic, psychologically. My parents and doctor were reluctant to offer me accutane - so I spent a couple years really suffering, trying all kinds of treatment th…

Damn I had such a similar story.. antibiotics, BPO, Isotretinoin. I've taken Iso for 24 months total with 100-120mg per day. I'm still afraid of IBS-like problems from that, but so far so good.

Re: Acne vulgaris: a disease of Western civilization (2002)

#42
Over time, in my case, I've seen that there's a certain threshold for eating (refined) sugar. Once I go past that, flare-ups start.

After years of trying this/that (including UV), tetracycline was the first thing that helped -a lot-. So there's an infectious component. Sebacious blockage (humidity is one factor) followed by infection seems a likely culprit.

I've also noticed something I've never seen mentiond: facial eruptions are often symmetrical on the horizontal. Maybe that's hygiene-related.

Acne sells a lot of product; maybe that's why there's been little resolution (apart from treating the symptoms instead of the cause) in decades.

Re: Acne vulgaris: a disease of Western civilization (2002)

#43

Over time, in my case, I've seen that there's a certain threshold for eating (refined) sugar. Once I go past that, flare-ups start. After years of trying this/that (including UV), tetracycline was the first thing that helped -a lot-. So there's an infectious component. Sebacious blockage (humidity is one factor) followed by infection seems a likely culprit. I've also noticed something I've never seen mentiond: facial…

antibiotics usually help - once. They also nuke a lot of things with them. And I recall a study showing they literally make you dumber - although I'm not certain on that.

I think acne has been 'solved' with isotretinoin mostly

Re: Acne vulgaris: a disease of Western civilization (2002)

#44
post #43

Over time, in my case, I've seen that there's a certain threshold for eating (refined) sugar. Once I go past that, flare-ups start. After years of trying this/that (including UV), tetracycline was the first thing that helped -a lot-. So there's an infectious component. Sebacious blockage (humidity is one factor) followed by infection seems a likely culprit. I've also noticed something I've never seen mentiond: facial…

antibiotics usually help - once. They also nuke a lot of things with them. And I recall a study showing they literally make you dumber - although I'm not certain on that. I think acne has been 'solved' with isotretinoin mostly

Antibiotics make you dumber?

I think I need a source for that.

Re: Acne vulgaris: a disease of Western civilization (2002)

#45
This study by Loren Cordain, the antropoligist founder of the paleo-diet, is flawed in several ways. Isolated tribes lead completely different lives from Westernerns. They also often share very little genetic material with us. E.g two neighbouring African tribes can be genetically more separated than all white people in the whole world.

Regarding acne and diet, here are two quotes from two meta studies:

"We did not realize how daunting it would be to write an article dedicated to making sense of the relationship of acne to foods. It turns out that there are no meta-analyses, randomized controlled clinical studies, or well-designed scientific trials that follow evidence-based guidelines for providing solid proof in dealing with this issue." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2836431/

"Despite the inundation of epidemiologic studies, mostly of unsatisfactory quality, and the abundance of beliefs and perceptions among acne patients about the role of diet in the pathogenesis of acne, there is a paucity of reliable information. In the few studies that have been undertaken, no specific foods (including fatty foods and chocolate) have been identified as causative factors. Yet, the question of whether common perceptions and beliefs prove to be fact or misconception is more than an academic issue. It is of importance due to the practical implications of these beliefs for acne management.

Alas, after reviewing the relevant published data, we can conclude that insufficient serious effort has been invested in investigating these questions, which are prevalent and consistent across different cultures. At present, we are bereft of reliable answers based on scientific evidence. We hope that the day when we will be able to knowledgeably advise our acne patients on the role of nutrition in relation to acne etiology is not too far away." http://centrespringmd.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/The-Rol...

Both mention Cordain's study and explains why it is no good. If you believe diet is causing acne, you might as well believe in homeopathy and healing too. All the anecdata in the world cannot change that.

If you think X (eating "bad" food) causes Y (acne), then observing (not X)and(not Y) doesn't prove anything because there is no PREDICTION involved. However, there is an obvious way to try and test the causality; DO X and observe Y. Eat as much pizza and chocolate and drink as much milk and soda you want. If you after t days have a face full of acne then CONGRATULATIONS! You have done something thousands of dermatologists have been unable to - namely demonstrated a causative link between diet and acne. It would truly be a huge breakthrough and you would have revolutionized the science of dermatology.

I find it very odd that, despite all the anecdotes, not a single person has conducted any such experiment.

Re: Acne vulgaris: a disease of Western civilization (2002)

#46
post #33
post #7

I read lots of research papers about acne and I tried many things including diets, removing dairy, removing sweets, changing pillow sheet daily, many kinds of anti acne treatments. The only thing that worked was roaccutane. After the treatment it slowly comes back so I beat it permanently with low-dosing (a 10 or 20mg pill every now and then) I realize there must be a reason deep down that caused it. Typically dermat…

What's your HbA1C level? https://www.hindustantimes.com/columns/that-acne-could-be-a-... https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamadermatology/fullarticle... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26373866 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4565837/ I would suggest you try a low-carb (and zero sugar) diet combined with a Zinc supplement, and even a 5,000 IU Vitamin D3 with 100 mcg Vitamin K2 (MK-7) and 200-400mg of…

Some people here really seems to not like (and flag) anything related to diet. That's unfortunate. I did not know the linked studies!

Re: Acne vulgaris: a disease of Western civilization (2002)

#47
post #43

Over time, in my case, I've seen that there's a certain threshold for eating (refined) sugar. Once I go past that, flare-ups start. After years of trying this/that (including UV), tetracycline was the first thing that helped -a lot-. So there's an infectious component. Sebacious blockage (humidity is one factor) followed by infection seems a likely culprit. I've also noticed something I've never seen mentiond: facial…

antibiotics usually help - once. They also nuke a lot of things with them. And I recall a study showing they literally make you dumber - although I'm not certain on that. I think acne has been 'solved' with isotretinoin mostly

Not once, but an improvement lasting years after years of trying every cure in the book.

I shared some some etiological observations, not suggesting any 'solutions'. And no, son, it hasn't been 'solved', nor has cupidity (or lameness). Treating symptoms is not a 'solution' but it is quite profitable.

Re: Acne vulgaris: a disease of Western civilization (2002)

#48
post #7

I read lots of research papers about acne and I tried many things including diets, removing dairy, removing sweets, changing pillow sheet daily, many kinds of anti acne treatments. The only thing that worked was roaccutane. After the treatment it slowly comes back so I beat it permanently with low-dosing (a 10 or 20mg pill every now and then) I realize there must be a reason deep down that caused it. Typically dermat…

roaccutane was the only thing that helped me aswell... but I think roaccutane had quite a negative effect on my mental state

Re: Acne vulgaris: a disease of Western civilization (2002)

#49
post #36

I think more effort is needed to understand the relationship with skin conditions and the families of bacteria, fungi, etc on our skin. Antifungal drugs, such as Ketoconazole are known to cause acne in some people. I suspect it isn't causing cysts, but that killing off fungus, makes for a huge opportunity for bacteria. For some reason certain fungi cause the skin to grow faster, clogging pores with dead skin. Similar…

Someone else mentioned this here. Like I said there, I really think the same way. Not just for acne, but other dermatitis conditions are really not understood.

So how do you get back a good balance of healthy bacteria/fungus on your skin? Rub some dirt on your face?

Re: Acne vulgaris: a disease of Western civilization (2002)

#50
I had moderate / server acne in my late teens (25 years ago now)

Benzyl Peroxide - no effect apart from making skin on face very dry

Daily Erythromycin (oral antibiotic) for months and months - no effect. (I dread to think what havoc that pointlessly wreaked on my microbiome at the time)

Roaccutane - complete cure within weeks HOWEVER in hindsight this coincided with an unusual period of depression, so was quite alarmed to see the reports of suicide risk more recently. That was not mentioned when prescribed, probably before there was evidence.

One thing that's guaranteed to make me a bit spotty, even in my mid forties is a sugar/chocolate binge, so for me the finger definitely points at sugar.

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