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Amazon’s Disturbing Plan to Add Face Surveillance to Your Front Door

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Re: Amazon’s Disturbing Plan to Add Face Surveillance to Your Front Door

#121

Post by haidut »

SCHiM wrote: post #20
ep103 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NYPD was using this during Occupy. Everyone complained that Occupy lacked organization. But what was happening on the ground was that the NYPD was identifying who potential leaders were by using face recognition technology and (we believed) cell phone tracking to identify people who consistently showed up to different meetings. They would then use the same face identification technology to pick these people out of cr…

I have never heard of this, do you have references to this? If this is true, and even if you (or someone) made it up but it is a practical possibility, then it has truly horrific consequences for social organization and the peaceful transition of power (democracy). I've written about that before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15110645 This is bad. If you take away more and more ways to (relatively) peacefully…

See my response above to the comment you are replying to. It is MUCH MUCH MUCH worse than that. The government had tasks force with snipers ready to eliminate the leaders "if deemed necessary". FBI refused to disclose who those snipers were, but since no arrests were made it is quite obvious the snipers are not some local criminal gang. This has been going on since the early 20th century and has to do with money. Not race, and not human rights. Money, and only money. Class warfare of the purest kind. Both MLK and Kennedy are probably the most notable examples of people who were quickly killed when they tried to change the system and enfranchise the poor. You probably think of MLK as a racial rights leader, but that's only 10% of the story. The other 90% are his efforts to end the oligarchy that rules America and as soon as he started talking about poor vs. rich instead of black vs. white, he was promptly killed. I am not even sure why we are even having these discussions, as not much can be done about it. The world is basically an international fascist regime, and the presence of separate countries is largely meaningless. We are all ruled by a handful of multi-national corporations that obey no laws, and are accountable to nobody. See the recent news about J&J knowingly selling for decades baby powder contaminated with asbestos. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18684384

If something so horrible (knowingly killing babies) can happen so habitually and be concealed for decades, then who the hell cares about freedom of speech or your civil rights?!? Seriously, wake the fk up!

Re: Amazon’s Disturbing Plan to Add Face Surveillance to Your Front Door

#122

Post by haidut »

cronix wrote: post #23
SCHiM wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never heard of this, do you have references to this? If this is true, and even if you (or someone) made it up but it is a practical possibility, then it has truly horrific consequences for social organization and the peaceful transition of power (democracy). I've written about that before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15110645 This is bad. If you take away more and more ways to (relatively) peacefully…

> New York City Police Department documents obtained by The Verge show that police camera teams were deployed to hundreds of Black Lives Matter and Occupy Wall Street protests from 2011–2013 and 2016. Originally acquired through a Freedom of Information Law request by New York attorney David Thompson of Stecklow & Thompson, the records are job reports from the NYPD’s Technical Assistance Response Unit (TARU) that doc…

The MUCH bigger story is FBI standing ready to kill protestors with snipers "if deemed necessary". All of these disruption tactics articles are just "soft" news to gently irritate the public and convince it that the truth is known, is regularly leaked and the press will keep the public informed. The real truth (the planned murder of activists MLK-style) is mostly NOT known, virtually no news outlets write about it, and FBI refused to declassify it. The truth is this: If somebody is a real threat to established order they get killed, plain and simple. This should be the discussion, not "disruption" tactics of the police and how allowable/legal they are.

Re: Amazon’s Disturbing Plan to Add Face Surveillance to Your Front Door

#123

Post by haidut »

pdkl95 wrote: post #69
SCHiM wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never heard of this, do you have references to this? If this is true, and even if you (or someone) made it up but it is a practical possibility, then it has truly horrific consequences for social organization and the peaceful transition of power (democracy). I've written about that before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15110645 This is bad. If you take away more and more ways to (relatively) peacefully…

Variations of this tactic (disrupt the leader before they create a useful coalition) used to be called COINTELPRO[1]. The methods used changed as technology changed, but the core tactic is still used in many places. GCHQ even has an entire department dedicated to this type of disruption: JTRIG[2]. > then it has truly horrific consequences for social organization and the peaceful transition of power (democracy). Snowd…

Similar response to the one I made to other commenters in the thread. The MUCH bigger story is FBI standing ready to kill Occupy protestors with snipers "if deemed necessary". All of these disruption tactics articles are just "soft" news to gently irritate the public and convince it that the truth is known, is regularly leaked and the press will keep the public informed. The real truth (the planned murder of activists MLK-style) is mostly NOT known, virtually no news outlets write about it, and FBI refused to declassify it. The truth is this: If somebody is a real threat to established order they get killed, plain and simple. This should be the discussion, not "disruption" tactics of the police and how allowable/legal they are.

Re: Amazon’s Disturbing Plan to Add Face Surveillance to Your Front Door

#124

Post by chaostheory »

JohnFen wrote: post #110
chaostheory wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My definition is that you're not going to be hassled by anyone, government included.

That sounds fair, although personally, I count being under surveillance as being hassled. This is because when I believe that I'm under surveillance, it makes me more cautious in terms of what I say and do, and puts me under stress.

Yes, that is a known negative of that type of society. Returning back to the subject, people on a whole are physically safe in that society as long as you follow their draconian rules. That is a benefit of a total surveillance society.

Re: Amazon’s Disturbing Plan to Add Face Surveillance to Your Front Door

#125

Post by haidut »

PavlovsCat wrote: post #24
ep103 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NYPD was using this during Occupy. Everyone complained that Occupy lacked organization. But what was happening on the ground was that the NYPD was identifying who potential leaders were by using face recognition technology and (we believed) cell phone tracking to identify people who consistently showed up to different meetings. They would then use the same face identification technology to pick these people out of cr…

> Well it’s very simple what happened. Everybody in America was convinced they literally lived in a police state, that if you go out to the streets and demand change, even if you non-violently sit in a park, RoboCops will come and beat you up. And for a moment, when we did this thing in Zucotti Park, that didn’t happen! Everybody was like: ‘What? You mean this actually is a free country? We can actually protest?’ And…

Beat them up? That all? Seriously, is everybody asleep?!

The FBI was standing ready so assassinate all the leaders of Occupy "if deemed necessary". See my comments to other posters in this thread and the links I provided. Once the news leaked that snipers were in place even the hardcore Occupy members decided to fold their tent (literally). Most people can probably deal with a few beatings, some will even sue for brutality and win decent awards, and maybe get some police scum fired. But suing is not an option if you get killed, and most people (rightly) draw the line there and decided a protest is not worth it. The society that lets that happen is a gang of drooling imbeciles, zombified by decades of SSRI and anti-anxity therapy, psyops by media and government, and kept in constant fear by being on the brink of financial ruin 24x7. How can you expect people to care about political protests if most of them worry to death about the next day, every day?? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18682331 https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/24/most-americans-live-paycheck...

Summary of the second link above, if you don't read it - SEVENTY EIGHT percent of working Americans live paycheck-to-paycheck! You can only imagine the financial situation of "non-working" Americans. So, do you think in that state anybody would care the slightest bit about a political protest?? The 99% are nothing but slaves and the 1% own us. Any other discussion is empty talk...or a psyop.

Re: Amazon’s Disturbing Plan to Add Face Surveillance to Your Front Door

#126

Post by lambdadmitry »

toss1 wrote: post #113
lambdadmitry wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An ordinary drive with a bit of speeding here and there everyday goes from perhaps a ticket or two every decade, to 6 tickets every trip. Can it be that the best way of avoiding that is avoiding speeding? It's interesting that you are lumping together objectively dangerous, even if prevalent in the US, public behaviour (deliberate speeding) with honest mistakes (making a wrong turn).

Yes, an obvious almost tautological suggestion, which often does not apply, and can actually increase the danger of situations even while technically reducing your chances of a ticket. I regularly drive on highways with relatively dense traffic all going 10-20mph above the speed limit; in these conditions, it is objectively MORE dangerous to attempt to go the speed limit. I've seen the whole pack drive right by a sta…

> with relatively dense traffic all going 10-20mph above the speed limit; in these conditions, it is objectively MORE dangerous to attempt to go the speed limit

The fix is simple: just make everyone observe speed limit with a bunch of speed cameras. In the meantime, fill the state coffers with fines. If people think the speed limit is too low, put pressure on politicians, make them run studies proving that it's safe to go 10-20mph more on that stretch and rise the speed limit if it is.

> it is NOT any numerical speed that causes issues

It absolutely is and you're just rationalizing. Kinetic energy rises quadratically with speed, and so does the risk of death and stopping distance.

> A safe fast driver is better than an unsafe slow driver any day.

That's a strowman. The point isn't that just you must go slower, it's that everyone must go slower and observe the actual speed limit. Speed limits aren't imposed just because, they are supposed to take into account tons of data that an average motorist can't possibly have in their mind. If people disregard and ignore them as "too low" instead of observing and fixing when needed, it just slowly corrodes civil society.

Re: Amazon’s Disturbing Plan to Add Face Surveillance to Your Front Door

#127

Post by lambdadmitry »

someguydave wrote: post #118
JohnFen wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the surveillance in the world won't keep your stuff from being stolen. At best, it might allow the thief to be apprehended later -- but you probably still won't be getting your stuff back. By the way, I have had my home pretty thoroughly automated for about 20 years now. I do recommend that (as long as you aren't using third party services -- that's a security risk all by itself). It's a lot of fun, not incredibl…

>All the surveillance in the world won't keep your stuff from being stolen. Maybe not but if the thieves are recognized automatically the police have a much better chance at recovery.

So basically there are two possibilities here:

- put pervasive face recog databases on the big majority of the US population in hands of huge multinational companies (because America) so an opulent Joe The Programmer can feel a little extra safety over his stuff, because Those Scary Plebs can steal their Juicero juicer

- work on societal problems, reduce the inequality to reduce the risk of robbing and accept whatever risk is left because the societal cost of pervasive corp surveillance is just too high

The fact that sizable number of people feel that the former in any way preferable is pretty damning.

Re: Amazon’s Disturbing Plan to Add Face Surveillance to Your Front Door

#128

Post by someguydave »

lambdadmitry wrote: post #127
someguydave wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>All the surveillance in the world won't keep your stuff from being stolen. Maybe not but if the thieves are recognized automatically the police have a much better chance at recovery.

So basically there are two possibilities here: - put pervasive face recog databases on the big majority of the US population in hands of huge multinational companies (because America) so an opulent Joe The Programmer can feel a little extra safety over his stuff, because Those Scary Plebs can steal their Juicero juicer - work on societal problems, reduce the inequality to reduce the risk of robbing and accept whateve…

I think this is a false dilemma. It could be that social problems have no solution, and yet also the poor and downtrodden benefit when the rule of law is upheld.
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