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Browsers

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121–130 of 316 posts

Re: Browsers

#121

I feel like I’m missing something, because I keep seeing blog posts that tell me a browser monoculture is bad (and the irony of Microsoft saying this is nearly too much), but none of them tell me why. I understand that it was bad in the IE6 days, but IE6 was also closed source and could only be run on Windows (see also the irony of Microsoft discontinuing IE on Mac, not wanting to compete with Safari, a browser made…

Google is much more at the reigns of Chromium than your comment perhaps illustrates. The only way to really innovate would be to make a full-fledged fork which would soon diverge enough to require as much development resources as Chromium, thereby negating many advantages of a common codebase. Also, even Chromium has many Google-specific features and integrations which make it worrying from a privacy perspective.

Re: Browsers

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concern is not 'now' it's 'later'. Google is a business like any other - and when they have the power to lever a monopolized situation - they will. For example, they may start integrating technologies for which they have exclusive, or at least 'special' access. Can you imagine if all of a sudden Google apps start performing better than anyone else's? Or what if they integrate technology that de-facto collects usa…

For example, they may start integrating technologies for which they have exclusive, or at least 'special' access. Can you imagine if all of a sudden Google apps start performing better than anyone else's? They've already started. Google Meet (their version of Hangouts for enterprise) didn't work on non-Chrome browsers for a very long time. If you tried to do a video call with a non-Chrome browser, you were told to in…

Also if alternate browsers mindshare dips too far they could argue it was too much effort to support such a small part of the market.

Re: Browsers

#123
What I would like to see is some kind of "white-list" browser - I think it's our best chance to keep an ad-free environment. Maybe it is a bad idea in general to allow a remote page write pixels to your screen: images, videos, text and now applications

It is nice that the web is open (at least reasonably), but maybe raw JS, HTML and CSS is too general? The most valuable webpages have simple designs and are liked because of their content, like

  - wikipedia.org
  - HN
  - stackoverflow.com
  - maps.google.com
  - ...
These pages could implement

  - Knowledge-Base
  - Topic-Comment-Community
  - Answer-Response-Community
  - Interactive-GIS
specifications, that obviously do not exist. E.g. if a newspaper implements a hypothetical "Newspaper-Specification" it would have to provide original, sourced content containing text, images, audio and video via some API (which is often already the case when single page apps fetch content client-side via e.g. JSON). There would be no visual difference between reading "The Guardian" vs. "USA Today" or browsing "OpenStreetMap" vs "Google Maps" as content would be rendered on the client.

Re: Browsers

#124

I feel like I’m missing something, because I keep seeing blog posts that tell me a browser monoculture is bad (and the irony of Microsoft saying this is nearly too much), but none of them tell me why. I understand that it was bad in the IE6 days, but IE6 was also closed source and could only be run on Windows (see also the irony of Microsoft discontinuing IE on Mac, not wanting to compete with Safari, a browser made…

The concern is not 'now' it's 'later'. Google is a business like any other - and when they have the power to lever a monopolized situation - they will. For example, they may start integrating technologies for which they have exclusive, or at least 'special' access. Can you imagine if all of a sudden Google apps start performing better than anyone else's? Or what if they integrate technology that de-facto collects usa…

"For example, they may start integrating technologies for which they have exclusive, or at least 'special' access. Can you imagine if all of a sudden Google apps start performing better than anyone else's?"

This is already happening. I very recently worked on the Edge team, and one of the reasons we decided to end EdgeHTML was because Google kept making changes to its sites that broke other browsers, and we couldn't keep up. For example, they recently added a hidden empty div over YouTube videos that causes our hardware acceleration fast-path to bail (should now be fixed in Win10 Oct update). Prior to that, our fairly state-of-the-art video acceleration put us well ahead of Chrome on video playback time on battery, but almost the instant they broke things on YouTube, they started advertising Chrome's dominance over Edge on video-watching battery life. What makes it so sad, is that their claimed dominance was not due to ingenious optimization work by Chrome, but due to a failure of YouTube. On the whole, they only made the web slower.

Now while I'm not sure I'm convinced that YouTube was changed intentionally to slow Edge, many of my co-workers are quite convinced - and they're the ones who looked into it personally. To add to this all, when we asked, YouTube turned down our request to remove the hidden empty div and did not elaborate further.

And this is only one case.

Re: Browsers

#125
post #7
post #3

The last time I enjoyed using the Firefox rendering engine on a Mac was back in the Camino days. I’d almost say that that browser is a better Mac experience than Firefox is today. I’ve started using Safari and it’s actually pretty OK and the resource utilization is a lot better than Chrome (no fans blowing!). I empathize with Firefox making a big deal out of avoiding a monoculture but i really hope they’re figuring o…

Correct me if I'm wrong, by all means, but I recently read somewhere that Firefox is genuinely trying to improve it's MacOS performance in one of the new releases. No sources, it was just in passing somewhere, but I distinctly remember it.

According to the latest poll within Mozilla, over 50% of the developers use a Mac. I suppose they're experiencing the same issues first-hand, and that it's only the matter of time before they iron out the performance.

Re: Browsers

#126
Why? Because the W3C is a factory the never stops churning out specs.

It's quite telling that even Microsoft was not able to keep-up with the complexity and decided to piggy-back on the biggest investor.

If we want less mono-culture, the first thing to do is to bring the complexity down to something manageable.

Re: Browsers

#127

I feel like I’m missing something, because I keep seeing blog posts that tell me a browser monoculture is bad (and the irony of Microsoft saying this is nearly too much), but none of them tell me why. I understand that it was bad in the IE6 days, but IE6 was also closed source and could only be run on Windows (see also the irony of Microsoft discontinuing IE on Mac, not wanting to compete with Safari, a browser made…

Lack of official support for Chromium on platforms other than OSX, Windows and Linux worries me a little.

Both FreeBSD and OpenBSD maintain large patch-sets to be able to build Chromium. [1][2]

I don't know the current situation, but historically some of these patches have had problems reaching upstream because Free-/OpenBSD is not officially supported[3].

[1] https://svnweb.freebsd.org/ports/head/www/chromium/files/ [2] http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/ports/www/chromium/... [3] https://codereview.chromium.org/180743014/#msg3

Re: Browsers

#128
Well, Microsoft opting for Chromium will be a big win for Google. As Google has a strong hold on Android mobile user base, for many non-technical users what comes by default is the first browser (may be best browser). Google taps that privilege/monopoly/advantage to their use. Those who comfortably use Chrome in mobile device will obviously opt for Chrome in desktop as well. Because it simplifies their mental model of browser comfort. Microsoft might have done the same thing for decades, but it has been trying to come out of that image for the past of couple of years. IMHO Microsoft is no more an evil. I won't blame Google if it plays fair with respect to its Chrome browser in Android. In many Android phones we can't uninstall Chrome. If we use Chrome actively in Android, it pushes lot of notifications (they will say serving the user with relevant content, but to me its a ad/handle which intend to make me see pages where ads are again controlled by Google). Even in Desktop when i open Google's any of the services using browser other than Chrome, at least in the third world where i live, it suggests me to "Switch to Chrome". Nobody is forcing anyone. But it is very essential to tell the world that there is something better available.

The recent better one from Firefox: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.mozilla.ro...

Re: Browsers

#129

Why is this such big news? No-one I know uses Edge as their daily browser. Based on the Google Analytics data of the various apps I work on, the usage for Edge is so small that it is basically irrelevant. If we are concerned about a lack of browser diversity, why weren't more people using Edge to being with? Or is it all the people who are now chanting "Use Firefox" are the ones who used Edge and feel cheated somehow…

It's not about the browser, it's about browser engines. Edge will still exist, but EdgeHTML will not. We're down from four major browser engines to three, with one clearly dominating the market.

Re: Browsers

#130

What I would like to see is some kind of "white-list" browser - I think it's our best chance to keep an ad-free environment. Maybe it is a bad idea in general to allow a remote page write pixels to your screen: images, videos, text and now applications It is nice that the web is open (at least reasonably), but maybe raw JS, HTML and CSS is too general? The most valuable webpages have simple designs and are liked beca…

>Maybe it is a bad idea in general to allow a remote page write pixels to your screen: images, videos, text and now applications

Computers have been doing this since the 60s, at least, in some form or another. I don't think you want to live in a world where the very idea of networks is considered harmful. Where all of the software you consume has to be loaded from physical media and the internet and any network connected device just doesn't exist. You couldn't even have cellphones.

We don't need a "whitelist" browser - you simply choosing not to visit sites you don't want to visit is already a sufficient whitelist. Having "specifications" that websites and authors would have to enforce based on content would make the web less free.

Websites are software. Software authors have the right and the freedom to write whatever they like, any way they choose, up to and including the UI. The Guardian being able to make their own decisions about how to implement the web versions of a "newspaper" - including design choices which might differentiate them from USA Today, is part and parcel the same sort of freedom that any author of any work, software, literary, music, what have you, enjoys. That HTML, CSS and JS don't step over the line from describing content to making editorial decisions about content is a feature, not a bug.

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