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The End of the Ad-Supported Web

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Re: The End of the Ad-Supported Web

#41

Before the rise of ubiquitous ads, the web was publisher-pays. If you wanted a blog, you would pay a host a few bucks a month to host it. I wonder if that's the model that the web will move back to. There's the argument to be made that the advertising model supports 'independent' news and social media, but it sure doesn't look that way - we'd move from partisan media supported through ads to partisan media supported…

Some micropayment / street-performer-payment solution will emerge if ads are gone. It may take a few years, likely not have anything to do with cryptocurrency (though it may).

There are quite a few people already supporting themselves through patreon; people are willing to pay if the donation is reasonable, and friction low enough.

In many ways iTunes/Netflix/prime beat “free” pirated content - but only once friction was low enough. That can happen on the web, but right now ads are incredibly low friction - they will have to go away first.

Re: The End of the Ad-Supported Web

#42
post #32

The irony of the articles website asking to turn off adblocker :) I'm not sure what a non ad supported web would look like. I'm fairly sure my local newspapers would collapse. They are drastically shrinking already. Seems hard to make a buck in journalism these days. we also hate "paywalls", we expect everything available for free and, the more tech savvy, are more than happy to block the ads with adblockers. While I…

> The irony of the articles website asking to turn off adblocker :)

Are you sure? For me it looks like the message is just an example picture.

At least the button "How to whitelist" isn't real for me...

Re: The End of the Ad-Supported Web

#43
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's nothing wrong with an ad supported web Keep in mind that ads are a very limited monetization scheme. For example, you can't even increase the price of your content and set it at a desired value.

That is basically how advertising works. You set the price and people pay to be next to the content. If you don't get the price you want, don't share the content. For people blindly putting a javascript tag on their page for google ads I would agree but you can bet that places like Techmeme and DaringFireball set their price.

Yes, but it's still very limited. The price point where nobody will want to advertise is pretty low (I'm guessing). There's no way to escape that, and basically your only option is to change the entire monetization scheme.

Re: The End of the Ad-Supported Web

#44

No ad supported web means a paid web. I am not sure if that is what the users want either. I have seen even in HN where people post alternate links of a site blocked by paywall to let users access the content for free. And this paid channel means every content site (such as Medium, NYT, WSJ, WaPo etc.) will have to institute their own paid mechanism which will cost users a lot of money. Pick your pill - you can't hav…

Some of us were on the web before it became an ad infested cesspool.

It wasn’t as slick, sure. But it was usable, and useful. Most of the useful things on the web that arrived since, with the notable exception of modern search engines, are independent of ads.

There needs to be a solution for commons like search engines if there is no ad revenue to be made - I would gladly pay $50/year for a good search engine (which is infinitely more than google and Facebook are making on me now, as I use as blockers) and I am not alone.

Re: The End of the Ad-Supported Web

#45
The problem aren't ads per se. Ads in newspapers and magazines were always fine. There, the advertisers would directly (via their agencies) close contracts with the publishers, based on the typical audience of the publication. A lot of these ads even can be considered part of the content. Most computer magazines of the past had sometimes as much value in the ads as in the articles. Because after all, ads can (and should) be the way a potential customer can find out about a product or service.

The problem with web ads was and is, that the nature of the ad business was changed completely. Rather that a publisher made contracts with the advertisers themselves, ad networks acted as a middleman. Publishers would no longer run ads of their clients, but rent out part of their web space to the ad networks, who would control the content posted on their sites. While this produced a lot of easy income to the publishers (they just rented out the space, had no further work to do), it had grave consequences:

- it introduced tracking of the web users to target ads, as the ad targetting was no longer done by linking it to the publication, with all the unacceptable consequences to privacy

- it far too often created anoying or even offensive ads, as there was little or no curation

- beyond annoying ads, far too often plain malware was distributed via the ad channel

So I am glad to hear that web ads in these form are dying. I hope the web publishing industry reacts in time and goes back to a more classic advertisement model. I don't mind reasonably presented ads which don't endanger my privacy or computer security. I even would be really interested in ads that are informative again. There are some websites out still, which seem to have direct ad contracts like print magazines and just integrate them in their page layout. And of course, they are not blocked by ad blockers, so they remain effective.

Re: The End of the Ad-Supported Web

#46
post #15

Re the reference to Vectuary. Here's the decision:[1] They sell an add-on for apps which snoops on the user's location and sends it to them for advertising purposes. The French data privacy regulator said that required Vecturary to get explicit user consent. But Vectuary has no customer interaction of their own. They claimed to rely on some chain of consent from some other party, but couldn't prove they actually had…

Pardon my ignorance, I didn't read the ruling or look into it deeply. Why would the tool, used by other apps, require consent itself? Why not punish the apps using the tool without the required user consent? So if I have a tool that helps with analytics, I can't sell in Europe? Because I can't prove that my customers used it properly? I wonder where the line is. My helper Android library that obtains an IP? What dete…

> I wonder where the line is. My helper Android library that obtains an IP?

GDPR only applies to parties who store and process user data. If your library doesn't talk to your own servers when embedded in someone else's app, you've got nothing to worry about.

Re: The End of the Ad-Supported Web

#47
Tracking provides a way for advertisers reach their intended audience without altering the message of the publisher. Advertising won't go away even if ad blockers reach 100%. It will just transform every article to an affiliate-supported promotion.

Re: The End of the Ad-Supported Web

#48
The problem with ads for me (other than the bloat and the privacy invasion) is that the tracking is just shit.

Whenever I'm signed in on Youtube I get non-stop ads for Squarespace (due to being a web dev I imagine). No matter how many times I mark the ads as irrelevant, they keep showing them. I've seen Squarespace ads hundreds of times, wasting my time, and Squarespace's ad spend.

When I open Youtube in a private browser and go to a gaming channel, I get ads for games. The ads are actually interesting, and I discovered three games this week that I hadn't heard of.

I would rather Youtube showed gaming ads on gaming channels, instead of all this tracking nonsense.

Re: The End of the Ad-Supported Web

#49
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely Vectuary just needs the apps of their clients to ask for consent from their users?

“Just”? It must be opt-in, not opt-out. The exact use must be properly described. Consent may be revoked at any time, and all copies of data retrieved or deleted by customer request. It is more likely the apps would drop Vectuary than deal with that.

Well yes, if informing your users about the data collection you're performing to monetize your product causes the majority of them to revoke consent for said data collection then of course your business isn't going to work.

The post I was replying to seemed to imply that they were unable to ask for consent though, rather than that consent was unlikely to be provided.

Re: The End of the Ad-Supported Web

#50
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who do you think should sponsor the creation of arts and the publication of news? I'd be okay with increasing taxes to cover it, or using a UK-style TV license (Internet Publishing License anyone?) and requiring people seek "Internet commissioners" like we have for Television[1], [2]. [1]: http://www.pbs.org/about/producing-pbs/proposal-process/ [2]: https://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning Another option is micropayments…

" Who do you think should sponsor the creation of arts and the publication of news? " The government is the obvious choice. The USA already has the National Endowment for the Arts, which is a good start but it needs vastly more money. The important thing is that the NEA has none of the corrupting biases that afflict companies such as Google and Facebook. Most Western countries have some equivalent for the NEA.

You don't see any conflict of interest with the government being a main sponsor of publication of news?
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