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Opt Out of a Body Scan? Then Brace Yourself

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Re: Opt Out of a Body Scan? Then Brace Yourself

#61

Post by ajaxian »

Construct wrote: post #45
ajaxian wrote: post #14

Serious question for the physicists: How feasible would it be to put a faraday cage in one's underpants that wouldn't trigger a metal detector but would mess up the body scanner?

A Faraday cage is, by definition, a conductive cage. You'll have a hard time getting a conductive material through a metal detector. Your best bet would be to construct a garment from a material which is significantly absorbs/attenuates the extremely high frequencies (30GHz to 300GHz) used by these millimeter-wave imaging scanners. Normal clothing passes these waves with minimal attenuation, where they bounce off of…

> Even more absorption can be had if you use pyramidal foam

Hell, it would also make the pat-down a lot more interesting!

Thanks for the detailed answer.

Of course my original question was somewhat facetious, but I do think it's farcical that, nine years after 9/11, in order to fly within the "land of the free and home of the brave" one has to be subjected to these humiliating so-called security measures. Military-industrial complex indeed! It would be interesting to trace the political donations given by the companies that make these machines...

Re: Opt Out of a Body Scan? Then Brace Yourself

#62

Post by daten »

Construct wrote: post #45
ajaxian wrote: post #14

Serious question for the physicists: How feasible would it be to put a faraday cage in one's underpants that wouldn't trigger a metal detector but would mess up the body scanner?

A Faraday cage is, by definition, a conductive cage. You'll have a hard time getting a conductive material through a metal detector. Your best bet would be to construct a garment from a material which is significantly absorbs/attenuates the extremely high frequencies (30GHz to 300GHz) used by these millimeter-wave imaging scanners. Normal clothing passes these waves with minimal attenuation, where they bounce off of…

If it's made to bounce off of skin, what about leather clothes?

Re: Opt Out of a Body Scan? Then Brace Yourself

#63

Post by jonnathanson »

biafra wrote: post #41
mike-cardwell wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought only women operated the machinery where women were scanned and only men, where the men are scanned?

Maybe they save the pictures and share later?

Supposedly they're not capable of saving or transmitting the pictures. I mean, obviously the machines are capable. But they're nerfed for TSA use. Supposedly.

Re: Opt Out of a Body Scan? Then Brace Yourself

#64

Post by ultrasaurus »

jamii wrote: post #38
ceejayoz wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always been baffled by the lack of those sorts of attacks. One can imagine the economic damage if everyone was terrified to go to malls, grocery stores, schools, etc. Amazon.com would be about the only company to come out okay.

I hate to keep making a point of this, but it has happened in the past and the solution wasn't pretty. Wikipedia says: The Troubles' impact on the ordinary people of Northern Ireland produced such psychological trauma that the city of Belfast had been compared to London during the Blitz. [104] The stress resulting from bomb attacks, street disturbances, security checkpoints, and the constant military presence had the…

"a severe housing shortage... there were 10,000... empty houses in Belfast alone."

A potent reminder of the kind of glaringly painful inefficiencies that come out of this kind of thing.

Re: Opt Out of a Body Scan? Then Brace Yourself

#65

Post by draebek »

chadgeidel wrote: post #60
jasongullickson wrote: post #43

To me this is just another reason (of many) that travelers should consider general aviation (charter, etc.) as an alternative to commercial airline travel. The straight financial cost may be higher but avoiding all of this sort of nonsense has its rewards, and remember that most GA operators are locally-owned smallish businesses that appreciate your support and treat their passengers like customers and not like priso…

I never thought of that, but wouldn't the TSA have authority over GA as well?

I was once shuttled to a business meeting in a small plane (maybe six to eight seats). I had no idea what to expect, showing up for my small flight. I parked at the airport, walked down to the runway where I met the pilot. I said, "is there a security screening? I've got a knife [about 3.5in blade, in my pocket]. I've also got this big thing of water." Pilot said, "that's nice, hop on in the plane. Need anything else?" I even got to listen to my MP3 player during take off.

Assuming that what I flew was "GA," then no, it doesn't seem like the TSA applies there.

As for how you get these sorts of flights and how much they cost, I can't help. I was just the passenger, and haven't done it since.

Re: Opt Out of a Body Scan? Then Brace Yourself

#66

Post by jules »

steveklabnik wrote: post #49
jules wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For whom on HN are pat downs intimidating and/or humiliating? I personally don't mind it at all, but I can understand that they could be a problem for somebody. I'm much more worried about CCTV's everywhere, cell phone tracking, internet usage tracking, tracking cars with cameras on highways that read number plates, etc. All these tools are extremely well suited for keeping a dictator in place. I'm afraid that if we…

Me. It's insane. It serves no purpose other than to intimidate and harasses normal citizens just trying to get from point A to point B. The fact that I'm assumed to be that stupid, plus the 1984-esqe overtones really, really gets to me.

Right. So it's not so much the physical aspects of pat downs, but the reasons behind the pat downs?

Re: Opt Out of a Body Scan? Then Brace Yourself

#67

Post by Flemlord »

pchristensen wrote: post #52
jasongullickson wrote: post #43

To me this is just another reason (of many) that travelers should consider general aviation (charter, etc.) as an alternative to commercial airline travel. The straight financial cost may be higher but avoiding all of this sort of nonsense has its rewards, and remember that most GA operators are locally-owned smallish businesses that appreciate your support and treat their passengers like customers and not like priso…

I echo tocomment - for someone who has only ever flown commercial, how would one go about finding and hiring a GA operator? What's kind of premium would you expect pay for a regional (eg Chicago to Detroit) flight or a longer flight (eg Chicago to LA)?

I'm also curious. Do you use a national charter company or do you have to contract directly with owner/pilots? How much does it cost? How fast is it compared to regular commercial travel?

Re: Opt Out of a Body Scan? Then Brace Yourself

#68

Post by jamii »

ultrasaurus wrote: post #64
jamii wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to keep making a point of this, but it has happened in the past and the solution wasn't pretty. Wikipedia says: The Troubles' impact on the ordinary people of Northern Ireland produced such psychological trauma that the city of Belfast had been compared to London during the Blitz. [104] The stress resulting from bomb attacks, street disturbances, security checkpoints, and the constant military presence had the…

"a severe housing shortage... there were 10,000... empty houses in Belfast alone." A potent reminder of the kind of glaringly painful inefficiencies that come out of this kind of thing.

Not inefficiency as such. Many houses were empty because the occupants were forcefully evicted.

"Another feature of the political violence was the involuntary or forced displacement of both Catholics and Protestants from formerly mixed residential areas. For example, in Belfast, Protestants were forced out of Lenadoon, and Catholics were driven out of the Rathcoole estate and the Westvale neighbourhood. In Derry city, almost all the Protestants fled to the predominantly loyalist Fountain Estate and Waterside areas."

Re: Opt Out of a Body Scan? Then Brace Yourself

#69

Post by rdtsc »

StavrosK wrote: post #27
phpnode wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and then make a point of loudly enjoying the pat down.

"Oh yes... A bit to the left, that's it!"

But I wonder if some TSA employee who doesn't like can just "randomly" pick you for additional questioning and delay you just enough to miss your flight then let you go.

Would they just retaliate against you just for making a fuss?

Re: Opt Out of a Body Scan? Then Brace Yourself

#70

Post by jamii »

tomjen3 wrote: post #55
jamii wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to keep making a point of this, but it has happened in the past and the solution wasn't pretty. Wikipedia says: The Troubles' impact on the ordinary people of Northern Ireland produced such psychological trauma that the city of Belfast had been compared to London during the Blitz. [104] The stress resulting from bomb attacks, street disturbances, security checkpoints, and the constant military presence had the…

Thats the part I never got either - I remember after 11/9 that I had wished America was British, because you guys reacted so sensible and wouldn't have gone so crazy. A country that can survive the Blitz isn't going to care about a couple of buildings.

Britain didn't react any more sensibly though. We had arguably even more erosion of civil liberties as a result eg http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/8...
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