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German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

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Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#91

Post by heipei »

Similarly interesting and close to the path/border in the article is the history of the neutral territory called "Neutral-Moresnet" which was incorporated into Belgium in 1944: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutral_Moresnet

Another odd occurence I only learned about recently in the area around here are the American Military Cemeteries in Belgium and the Netherlands which are administered by the American Battle Monuments Commission (ABMC). Visiting one feels like being on a patch of US soil in the middle of the Belgian countryside (signs, road-markings, the way the gardens are kept, etc), quite surreal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri-Chapelle_American_Cemete...

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#92

Post by jamiegreen »

jstanley wrote: post #70
jamiegreen wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it paranoia, or just a sensible way for states to implement some semblance of control over their own border when a EU wide strategy seems out of reach?

It is no more "sensible" for a state to be exercising control of its border than it is for a town to be exercising control over its border. We're all free people in the world, and we should be able to move around it freely. There should be no borders at all.

In this world, how would public officials plan for the number of school places needed in 2 years, or the number of hospital beds? It's a nice idea, but it seems impractical.

The sentiment that we are "all free people" may sound nice but is unfortunately a meaningless platitude bearing little resemblance to the real world. Sorry if that sounds unduly harsh

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#93

Post by HumanDrivenDev »

jstanley wrote: post #70
jamiegreen wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it paranoia, or just a sensible way for states to implement some semblance of control over their own border when a EU wide strategy seems out of reach?

It is no more "sensible" for a state to be exercising control of its border than it is for a town to be exercising control over its border. We're all free people in the world, and we should be able to move around it freely. There should be no borders at all.

Are you not then essentially arguing that states have no sovereignty? If so, how far do you take it - do individuals? Can any migrant - legal or not - rock up to your house and start camping on your lawn?

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#94

Post by jstanley »

HumanDrivenDev wrote: post #93
jstanley wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is no more "sensible" for a state to be exercising control of its border than it is for a town to be exercising control over its border. We're all free people in the world, and we should be able to move around it freely. There should be no borders at all.

Are you not then essentially arguing that states have no sovereignty? If so, how far do you take it - do individuals? Can any migrant - legal or not - rock up to your house and start camping on your lawn?

In my world there would be no such thing as an "illegal" migrant.

And, the distinction would be between public places and private places. Anybody is free to exist in any public place with no permission required (just like you are already allowed to do once you're in the country).

It would all be exactly the same as it is now, except there are no checks at the border, and no visa requirements.

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#95

Post by BjoernKW »

jstanley wrote: post #70
jamiegreen wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it paranoia, or just a sensible way for states to implement some semblance of control over their own border when a EU wide strategy seems out of reach?

It is no more "sensible" for a state to be exercising control of its border than it is for a town to be exercising control over its border. We're all free people in the world, and we should be able to move around it freely. There should be no borders at all.

I agree that no borders at all is a desirable state.

However, in order to achieve this, certain prerequisites have to be met first. Opening borders has to be accompanied and indeed preceded by economic development.

The Schengen agreement for example only works because of the relatively similar economic situations of the member countries and even then it unfortunately has been a considerable cause for discord in recent years.

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#96

Post by jstanley »

jamiegreen wrote: post #92
jstanley wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is no more "sensible" for a state to be exercising control of its border than it is for a town to be exercising control over its border. We're all free people in the world, and we should be able to move around it freely. There should be no borders at all.

In this world, how would public officials plan for the number of school places needed in 2 years, or the number of hospital beds? It's a nice idea, but it seems impractical. The sentiment that we are "all free people" may sound nice but is unfortunately a meaningless platitude bearing little resemblance to the real world. Sorry if that sounds unduly harsh

The same way town officials currently plan for the number of school places needed in their town in 2 years.

I already drew a parallel between towns and countries.

Remember, we're all free to visit or even move to a different town right now, and yet we don't have chaos.

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#97

Post by aasasd »

galago wrote: post #31
gammateam wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The german entry for Büsingen is MUCH more detailed https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Büsingen_am_Hochrhein This really frustrates me about Wikipedia because its like a totally parallel site and experience thats just right there and can even have conflicting information. Not helping the world as much as we think, but its so close to being able to.

Can't we just all agree to speak English? No, I don't think that would be a good idea. Perhaps they could write a (albeit imperfect) tool to alert readers when another language has a much larger or more comprehensive article. I'm sure the Wikipedians have considered the fact that some information is better presented in a particular language. For example, an article about Shakespeare will be more precise in English th…

> Perhaps they could write a (albeit imperfect) tool to alert readers when another language has a much larger or more comprehensive article.

There's a template saying “this article could be improved with translation from $other-language.”

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#98

Post by throwaway15525 »

It's true that you can easily cross the border to Switzerland (which has mostly to do with economic reason). If you think that you can cross the border without being surveilled, then let me tell you that on many Swiss border crossings there are licence plate readers. As a foreigner, it's almost impossible to cross Switzerland without having your plates checked at least once. I had once an introduction to the possibilities of the Swiss border guards (and what they do) and I can tell you I was suprised to hear and almost couldn't believe it. There are not just standing 2'000 border guards around to say hi to you and wave you through.

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#99

Post by jstanley »

BjoernKW wrote: post #95
jstanley wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is no more "sensible" for a state to be exercising control of its border than it is for a town to be exercising control over its border. We're all free people in the world, and we should be able to move around it freely. There should be no borders at all.

I agree that no borders at all is a desirable state. However, in order to achieve this, certain prerequisites have to be met first. Opening borders has to be accompanied and indeed preceded by economic development. The Schengen agreement for example only works because of the relatively similar economic situations of the member countries and even then it unfortunately has been a considerable cause for discord in recen…

What bad things do you think would happen if opening borders were not accompanied or preceded by economic development?

Or, to put it another way: what gives you the right to exist in a public place in the country you live in, but not a poorer person?

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#100

Post by prepend »

FigBug wrote: post #7
Faaak wrote: post #2

> There is no border control due to the Schengen Agreement, therefore daily life is not really impacted. That's the most interesting part to me. I cross the border every day to go to work. Yet, when a friend came to visit us and we we to the city, he couldn't believe that we were crossing a border that easily (France-Switzerland). It was literally an open fence with a sign welcoming you. It's really awesome when you…

This is what I was expecting when I drove between Switzerland-Italy in 2016. Except I was stopped, told to park, had my passport examined with with a loupe, and then was sent on my way. Are the borders back to normal now?

That happened to me between Switzerland and Germany in 2011. The French didn’t do anything when I drove from Switzerland to France.
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