German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany • Hacker News Board

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#81

Post by tim333 » Sun, Dec 16, 2018, 8:11 PM UTC

jwr wrote: post #32

This is a good time to consider what a ridiculous concept "borders" are, especially within the EU. What makes land and people on one side of an arbitrary line so different from land and people on the other side of it? Borders are necessary because of power-hungry politicians: without borders, entire levels of governments would become unnecessary. This is why we hear so much about "patriotism" these days.

It goes back millions of years with territorial animals but hopefully we are gradually getting over it with the odd glitch like Brexit en route.

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#82

Post by Symbiote » Sun, Dec 16, 2018, 8:16 PM UTC

lucideer wrote: post #67

jamiegreen wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it paranoia, or just a sensible way for states to implement some semblance of control over their own border when a EU wide strategy seems out of reach?

It's paranoia. In order to argue that it's sensible, you have to first demonstrate a disimprovement in affairs warranting a change in policy, and secondly show a causal link between "outsiders" that your border control is targeting and those disimprovements. Even if you could manage the former of those two (which I don't believe you could, though I might be mistaken), the latter is definitely not the case.

I don't have any numbers, but I twice saw refugees "caught" at Malmö Hyllie station; the first station in Sweden and the official customs point for people arriving by train from Denmark.

I only go to Malmö every 2-3 months, so at least for a while it may have been reasonable, given the aim of discovering refugees before they settle illegally somewhere.

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#83

Post by gammateam » Sun, Dec 16, 2018, 8:18 PM UTC

denzil_correa wrote: post #47

Forge36 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you speak German? Would you mind translating parts? I can give it a go, however my German skills aren't great.

There seems to be an English page too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Büsingen_am_Hochrhein

The point is that the English page is basically not even part of the same encyclopedia. It lacks the level of detail and might as well just be an inferior search result to some other website that you would have skipped

A lot of Wikipedia is like this. The entries in different languages are not equivalents of each other.

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#84

Post by k__ » Sun, Dec 16, 2018, 8:21 PM UTC

lagadu wrote: post #39

k__ wrote: post #28

What are the reasons such things aren't resolved?

What's there to resolve if it works perfectly fine as it is?

Don't know, simpler borders are easier to maintain?

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#85

Post by anticensor » Sun, Dec 16, 2018, 8:23 PM UTC

randallsquared wrote: post #35

OscarCunningham wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in the U.S. have forgotten the meaning of the word "state".

For the most part, the US "states" stopped being states in the political sense when the Articles were replaced by the Constitution, and deliberately so.

Which Articles? Non-US reader here.

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#86

Post by Symbiote » Sun, Dec 16, 2018, 8:26 PM UTC

FigBug wrote: post #40

zaarn wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Random border checks are normal, even in Schengen, usually it's by Customs, sometimes it's highway/Autobahn police. Spotchecks are perfectly normal, though they've been elevated on some borders due to the refugee crisis (atleast in germany).

If you live in the EU are you supposed to carry your passport whenever you move between countries?

Two things are being confused here:

1. Except for the UK, Ireland and Denmark, EU countries issue identity cards which are valid for most situations where a passport is required, so long as nothing would be stamped: crossing borders within the EU, proving identity to the police [1].

2. Many European countries have rules requiring someone to be able to prove their identity, such as with their identity card or a passport. Those rules apply to visiting foreigners. Depending where they're from, they could comply with their national identity card, or with a passport.

So the answer is yes, except instead of a passport most people carry their credit-card sized identity card.

Since I'm British, and can't have an identity card, I'll often leave my passport in the hotel safe and carry a photocopy of the picture page. Particularly if I'm somewhere risky like a music festival or long hiking trip, where a passport could easily be lost, stolen or damaged by rain. I don't think I've ever had to show it.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_identity_cards_in_the...

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#87

Post by anticensor » Sun, Dec 16, 2018, 8:27 PM UTC

lucideer wrote: post #11

FigBug wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I was expecting when I drove between Switzerland-Italy in 2016. Except I was stopped, told to park, had my passport examined with with a loupe, and then was sent on my way. Are the borders back to normal now?

A few countries have started to introduce this recently due to paranoia around Syrian refugees. It's extremely controversial, as it basically nullifies Schengen, but countries are apparently allowed by the agreement to put these spot checks in place (provided some political procedures) up to 20 out of every 60 days.

It is easy to work around that if that counts separately for each crossing: have four sets of border crossings, each accessible every fourth day, and controlled every day.

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#88

Post by abc03 » Sun, Dec 16, 2018, 8:29 PM UTC

FigBug wrote: post #40

zaarn wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Random border checks are normal, even in Schengen, usually it's by Customs, sometimes it's highway/Autobahn police. Spotchecks are perfectly normal, though they've been elevated on some borders due to the refugee crisis (atleast in germany).

If you live in the EU are you supposed to carry your passport whenever you move between countries?

If you move between Switzerland and Germany, you need to have a passport (or ID which was also accepted before Schengen) and will be announced when a train approaches the border. I have seen people being denied entry because they didńt have a passport.

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#89

Post by OscarCunningham » Sun, Dec 16, 2018, 8:29 PM UTC

anticensor wrote: post #85

randallsquared wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the most part, the US "states" stopped being states in the political sense when the Articles were replaced by the Constitution, and deliberately so.

Which Articles? Non-US reader here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articles_of_Confederation

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#90

Post by anticensor » Sun, Dec 16, 2018, 8:31 PM UTC

denzil_correa wrote: post #64

tonfa wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But airlines sometimes requires it (and afaik they're allowed to). (Not all, I've done quite a few flights without being ever checked, seems to depend on airlines and/or airports).

EU nationals can get by national ID cards - a passport isn't obligatory. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/eu-c...

Tell that to Ryanair.