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Most Money Advice Is Worthless When You’re Poor

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Re: Most Money Advice Is Worthless When You’re Poor

#31

Post by EliRivers »

CuriousCosmic wrote: post #29
EliRivers wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This advice seems pretty irrelevant. She just said that these people do not have any spare money to save up, but this advice is "save up".

I'm not the OP but I have a somewhat similar mindset. My advice isn't just "save up", it's the following. Look for a better paying job and scrape together every dime you can until then. Don't indulge in the burger or chips, spend that on making a massive pot of cheap hearty soup, stew, or gumbo that'll last you through the week. Bunker down and take free indulgences. (a free game or movie from a maybe less than offic…

This advice doesn't work for those who need childcare for those 60+ hours a week, those who simply don't have access to facilities to cook cheap gumbo (cheapest places don't have cooking facilities), those who cannot store gumbo for a week (fridges aren't free), those who don't happen to live within walking distance of such a job, and so on.

There is a wealth of ways that healthy people with nothing but free time (to both work 60+ hours, AND to find that work; how did you pay for yourself while you were finding that work? Can everyone else use that same source of funding?) and access to basic facilities can help themselves. But once people fall so far that your advice is no longer applicable, and they find themselves living somewhere like the US, they're fucked permanently. A permanent underclass.

Re: Most Money Advice Is Worthless When You’re Poor

#32

Post by rue »

hourislate wrote: post #24

Being a first generation American and coming from an environment of poverty, my parents sacrificed their health and lives to give us kids a better one. My father did the hardest, dirtiest work that was unfit for a beast and mother cleaned houses. They had nothing but made sure the kids had everything they needed (cloths, education, food) and through their sacrifice the chains of poverty were broken. Millions of Immig…

You know, all immigrants can’t do that either. And other “others” do just fine.

You have what’s called “survivor bias”, and you need to get past it to understand systemic issues.

Re: Most Money Advice Is Worthless When You’re Poor

#33

Post by pasta »

tarboreus wrote: post #23
pasta wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this applies anymore. Cheap is getting better and better. And the rich just buy new because they like to go with the trend spending hundreds of dollars on boots. Most people I know (Netherlands) who are not wealthy have mental issues or don't know how to manage money. Edit: I don't want to sound like I think the author belongs to those 2 groups. There are many more reasons why someone is poor.

I think it's fair to say that this is less true in America, where we have essentially no social safety net.

True. That's also why the USA is now a third world country.

And I really feel sorry for the author. But my comment was more about the boots story.

Re: Most Money Advice Is Worthless When You’re Poor

#34

Post by zozbot123 »

EliRivers wrote: post #22
ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re-read the last section entitled " Go ahead, buy that bag of fries ". The lady chooses to buy small luxuries to help her cope with her life. Whether that's a valid approach is up for debate but that money is there.

She knows she's already fucked. Not going to make rent. Already in debt and dodging bailiffs and debt collectors and intimidating loan-sharks, none of whom she has any chance of paying off. Hoping she doesn't get sick because she'll lose her job and end up on the streets. If her wreck of a car suffers a minor fault, she's going to lose her job. She knows she's already fucked. Not buying the bag of fries will not help…

> Already in debt and dodging bailiffs and debt collectors and intimidating loan-sharks, none of whom she has any chance of paying off.

Okay, then maybe she should consider declaring personal bankruptcy and getting a clean start? There are some debts that cannot be discharged using bankruptcy, but they're not the sort of debt that f---s you over and that you have no chance in hell of paying off. Solutions are out there, she should use them.

Re: Most Money Advice Is Worthless When You’re Poor

#35

Post by rue »

CuriousCosmic wrote: post #29
EliRivers wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This advice seems pretty irrelevant. She just said that these people do not have any spare money to save up, but this advice is "save up".

I'm not the OP but I have a somewhat similar mindset. My advice isn't just "save up", it's the following. Look for a better paying job and scrape together every dime you can until then. Don't indulge in the burger or chips, spend that on making a massive pot of cheap hearty soup, stew, or gumbo that'll last you through the week. Bunker down and take free indulgences. (a free game or movie from a maybe less than offic…

Could you, for a minute, consider that maybe your advice actually doesn’t apply or help?

I know it’s a staggering thought, but give it a go.

Re: Most Money Advice Is Worthless When You’re Poor

#36

Post by rue »

paulpauper wrote: post #27
bluedevil2k wrote: post #8

> The way I see it, being poor is like having cancer What a terrible way to look at it, making it seem like it’s entirely out of your control and you need outside help just to survive. There’s many examples of people who have climbed out of poverty to middle class, even upper class. I highly doubt they’d spread the advice that being poor is a hopeless disease.

I think IQ, which is biological and intrinsic to the individual, plays an important role in upward mobility. All else being equal, someone with an IQ of 80-100 is going to have a harder time climbing out of poverty than someone with an IQ higher than 115.

You managed 5 words before being wrong… please do read up on modern thinking on IQ—and especially how poverty affects it.

Re: Most Money Advice Is Worthless When You’re Poor

#37

Post by EliRivers »

zozbot123 wrote: post #34
EliRivers wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She knows she's already fucked. Not going to make rent. Already in debt and dodging bailiffs and debt collectors and intimidating loan-sharks, none of whom she has any chance of paying off. Hoping she doesn't get sick because she'll lose her job and end up on the streets. If her wreck of a car suffers a minor fault, she's going to lose her job. She knows she's already fucked. Not buying the bag of fries will not help…

> Already in debt and dodging bailiffs and debt collectors and intimidating loan-sharks, none of whom she has any chance of paying off. Okay, then maybe she should consider declaring personal bankruptcy and getting a clean start? There are some debts that cannot be discharged using bankruptcy, but they're not the sort of debt that f---s you over and that you have no chance in hell of paying off. Solutions are out the…

Yet they don't. Why not? Why is your advice here not being taken?

Re: Most Money Advice Is Worthless When You’re Poor

#38

Post by bluedevil2k »

tzar wrote: post #14
bluedevil2k wrote: post #8

> The way I see it, being poor is like having cancer What a terrible way to look at it, making it seem like it’s entirely out of your control and you need outside help just to survive. There’s many examples of people who have climbed out of poverty to middle class, even upper class. I highly doubt they’d spread the advice that being poor is a hopeless disease.

> ...making it seem like it’s entirely out of your control and you need outside help just to survive. Is this not the case? It seems rather apparent that we all depend on our environment (including one another) for survival. There are also many examples of people who have survived cancer.

People who survived cancer by doing nothing? That’s the analogy he’s making, that poor people should ignore help cause they “have cancer” and can’t do anything about it.

Re: Most Money Advice Is Worthless When You’re Poor

#40

Post by bluedevil2k »

Decathect wrote: post #26
bluedevil2k wrote: post #8

> The way I see it, being poor is like having cancer What a terrible way to look at it, making it seem like it’s entirely out of your control and you need outside help just to survive. There’s many examples of people who have climbed out of poverty to middle class, even upper class. I highly doubt they’d spread the advice that being poor is a hopeless disease.

There's many examples of people who have survived cancer and lived another decade, even five decades. I highly doubt they’d spread the advice that having cancer is a hopeless disease. The commonality is it was out of their control, they absolutely needed outside help just to survive, and that their odds were terrible. The existence of rare exceptions only highlights the fatality rate. Unlike cancer, however, there's…

GDP has no relation to average wage, so not sure you can make an argument for ... giving people more money? If if I make a candy bar and sell it for $1, GDP would be $1, but my personal profit may only be 10 cents. Further, if I sold it to a convenience store who sells it for $2, then GDP is $3, and total profitability may only be 20 cents.
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