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German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

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Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#41

Post by coliveira »

y4mi wrote: post #22
toyg wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not. The Italian Northern border has been repeatedly “closed to Schengen” by neighbours because of the migration crisis. France, Switzerland and Austria basically keep suspending the treaty unilaterally whenever they feel like, as well as carrying out further abuses (like French Police illegally crossing the border and unloading migrants in a forest before driving back).

> like French Police illegally crossing the border and unloading migrants in a forest before driving back Please tell me you have a source for that. / Edit It seems to have been a singular occurrence where two migrants were deported unofficially by French officers. Your phrasing made it sound like a regular occurrence of at least tens of migrants... But it is technically correct, I guess.

I don't know anything about this situation, but if the police was caught doing this once I have a strong guess that it is not so uncommon.

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#43

Post by Randomswiss »

badpun wrote: post #33
jwr wrote: post #32

This is a good time to consider what a ridiculous concept "borders" are, especially within the EU. What makes land and people on one side of an arbitrary line so different from land and people on the other side of it? Borders are necessary because of power-hungry politicians: without borders, entire levels of governments would become unnecessary. This is why we hear so much about "patriotism" these days.

> What makes land and people on one side of an arbitrary line so different from land and people on the other side of it? Cultures? People on one both sides of the border generally have different culture and hierarchies of values. Thanks to borders, every nation gets to organize their piece of earth as they see fit (at least in democracies).

Then what about Switzerland who speak 3 langues (4 officially). We talk English together and the French part is generally more focus on France than Switzerland (I'm from that part)

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#44

Post by zaarn »

FigBug wrote: post #40
zaarn wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Random border checks are normal, even in Schengen, usually it's by Customs, sometimes it's highway/Autobahn police. Spotchecks are perfectly normal, though they've been elevated on some borders due to the refugee crisis (atleast in germany).

If you live in the EU are you supposed to carry your passport whenever you move between countries?

At least in Germany you have a legal duty to have a passport or ID card, if a police officer asks for one but you don't have it, you'll either be brought into the next police station (if you don't have a legal address) until it clears up or show up at your nearest police station within 24 hours or up to a week, depending on the situation. Though generally if you don't have it, you usually get an oral warning and have to, as mentioned, bring a valid document of identity to a police stations (sometimes not even that). Going directly to the station is very rare in my experience.

Not having a document of identity at all is grounds for a fine of up to 3000€, though if you travel from outside the EU you'll have your travel passport anyway.

Netherland and Portugal have a similar law.

Austria has a similar law but only for non-austrian persons in Austria.

When you cross borders, even in the EU, you should be prepared that you might get controlled/checked, it usually doesn't happen but it's good to be prepared.

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#45

Post by mevile »

OscarCunningham wrote: post #8
Faaak wrote: post #2

> There is no border control due to the Schengen Agreement, therefore daily life is not really impacted. That's the most interesting part to me. I cross the border every day to go to work. Yet, when a friend came to visit us and we we to the city, he couldn't believe that we were crossing a border that easily (France-Switzerland). It was literally an open fence with a sign welcoming you. It's really awesome when you…

People in the U.S. have forgotten the meaning of the word "state".

It comes up when criminals have to be extradited from one state to another, and state laws. Like you have to know weapon transportation laws in states if you don't want to go to jail and have a handgun you want to put in your car.

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#46

Post by jamiegreen »

lucideer wrote: post #11
FigBug wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I was expecting when I drove between Switzerland-Italy in 2016. Except I was stopped, told to park, had my passport examined with with a loupe, and then was sent on my way. Are the borders back to normal now?

A few countries have started to introduce this recently due to paranoia around Syrian refugees. It's extremely controversial, as it basically nullifies Schengen, but countries are apparently allowed by the agreement to put these spot checks in place (provided some political procedures) up to 20 out of every 60 days.

Is it paranoia, or just a sensible way for states to implement some semblance of control over their own border when a EU wide strategy seems out of reach?

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#47

Post by denzil_correa »

Forge36 wrote: post #30
gammateam wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The german entry for Büsingen is MUCH more detailed https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Büsingen_am_Hochrhein This really frustrates me about Wikipedia because its like a totally parallel site and experience thats just right there and can even have conflicting information. Not helping the world as much as we think, but its so close to being able to.

Do you speak German? Would you mind translating parts? I can give it a go, however my German skills aren't great.

There seems to be an English page too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Büsingen_am_Hochrhein

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#48

Post by denzil_correa »

FigBug wrote: post #40
zaarn wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Random border checks are normal, even in Schengen, usually it's by Customs, sometimes it's highway/Autobahn police. Spotchecks are perfectly normal, though they've been elevated on some borders due to the refugee crisis (atleast in germany).

If you live in the EU are you supposed to carry your passport whenever you move between countries?

No, you don't if you are an EU national [0].

> If you are an EU national , you do not need to show your national ID card or passport when you are travelling from one border-free Schengen EU country to another.

[0] https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/eu-c...

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#49

Post by cblum »

ilamont wrote: post #21

There are some weird border situations up on US/Canada border, including: * Library in Vermont and Quebec straddling the border: https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/the-us-canada-border-r... * Canadian train that crosses northern Maine and used to have U.S. border guards board it (can't find the resource, but I saw this on TV show some years ago) * Thousand Islands border between Ontario and NY State, which can be…

Also Point Roberts, WA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_Roberts,_Washington

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#50

Post by ThinkingGuy »

Faaak wrote: post #2

> There is no border control due to the Schengen Agreement, therefore daily life is not really impacted. That's the most interesting part to me. I cross the border every day to go to work. Yet, when a friend came to visit us and we we to the city, he couldn't believe that we were crossing a border that easily (France-Switzerland). It was literally an open fence with a sign welcoming you. It's really awesome when you…

Schengen Agreement was only implemented relatively recently (80's/90's?). How were border controls near these enclaves/exclaves handled for all the years before that?
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