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Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

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161–170 of 172 posts

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#161
post #9

One day he will catch an employee stealing, fly into a rage and fire the entire workforce. He'll lock the iron gates to the factory and sequester himself from the public eye for several decades sparking all kinds of rumours about his fate. Then one day he'll announce a competition for children to win golden tickets to visit his once grand factory and we'll finally discover the real story of Elon Musk and his Gigafact…

Fuck, I love this so much because it feels realer than the reality that is happening.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#162

I used to be neutral or slightly positive about Musk but this year really changed my view on him. He's a pathological liar, attention-seeker, vengeful narcissist, obsessed about his public image who's unable to handle criticism.

Why would anyone do what he's doing? There is no way to be be in the public eye and manage this and be total. He grew up outside the US is in the cold war being told every day that a dispute between countries he didn't live in would wipe the world clean. Assange grew up in the same hacker environment. Different tracks for sure. The world gave a smart kid nothing but terror. He said he'll fix it AND leave at the same time. A mix of PTSD, pathalogical demand avoidance, giftedness and opportunity.

No one that had a brain would want the guys job. I'm not using it as an excuse, he's not a savior. He is doing neat shit, but he wants an unreal hat trick and is just the same as the rest of us on this rock. Even if/when he leaves, it'll all still be with him.

I think his cars are fun and rockets are cool, but if I think about the human side... it's more than a bit mad.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps I kept my comment too brief. I'm not endorsing Musk's behaviour in the slightest; it's abhorrent. I was speaking solely in reference to the initial comment about the obscene hours these employees seem to do, and conjecturing a reason as to how the employee might justify it to themselves.

Obviously they’re rationalising and justifying it to themselves or they wouldn’t be doing it. I get it. But that doesn’t make it a bad decision. I’ve heard a LOT of stories where people went way above and beyond what they had to and then got dropped like they were nothing when it didn’t suit the employer anymore and very, very, very few stories where it worked out well for the employee.

Too late to edit, but I meant “that doesn’t make it a good decision” not “bad decision”

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#164
post #5

Yay for at-will employment laws... :-( > Over the previous year, he had been living out of a suitcase, putting in 13-hour days, seven days a week. This story is a good reminder not to do this. The company will usually not return the favour, you rarely get properly rewarded for crazy hours, yet it has a major impact on your health (both mental and physical) in the long run. Not worth it. > It was not a 9 to 5 company.…

I didn't read the article, so perhaps I'm missing something: > How much of this money did the employees get for all the overtime they were forced to work? Did someone somehow compel someone else to work those hours? I imagine most Tesla employees are at the top of their field, and have many jobs to choose from. If someone chose to work like that, there must have been a motivation, it doesn't seem like they would have…

You believe that they wouldn’t be fired if they chose to perform normal working hours?

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but my point is that as an employee I like knowing I can leave at any time I want. I consider having that freedom a reasonable price to pay for my employer being able to let me go at any time they want.

my point is that as an employee I like knowing I can leave at any time I want What gives you the idea that you cannot leave anytime you want as an employee?

Whut? Look at what you quoted: I said exactly that I can!

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you can also quit for any reason, at any time. Sure, I know that in most cases the employer has more power than the employee, but what's the reasonable alternative? If I run a business and I can't afford you, then I have to continue employing you to the detriment of the rest of the business? One of the guys who reports to me just turned in his 2 weeks notice completely out of the blue. It puts me in a bind beca…

If I run a business and I can't afford you, then I have to continue employing you to the detriment of the rest of the business? I frequently hear this being trotted out as the reason why at-will employment is a good thing. This is, however, not the reality. You can fire employees for many reasons: Poor performance, breaking the rules, and - yes - lack of money. What you cannot do is fire people on the spot for any ra…

I'm trying to understand how in this and my other comment I am failing to communicate as you seem to be reading the exact opposite of what I'm saying.

First, in an at-will state in the US, except for those cases relating to protected classes, you can indeed legally let any employee go for any random reason you desire. Any "complications" involved have been added by your company, in an attempt to protect them from employee lawsuits.

Let me just cut to the chase and say this as simply as I can. I think at-will employment is a good thing. As an employee I like knowing I can simply decide to quit on a whim and I see no reason an employer shouldn't have the same freedom.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#167
post #80
post #5

Yay for at-will employment laws... :-( > Over the previous year, he had been living out of a suitcase, putting in 13-hour days, seven days a week. This story is a good reminder not to do this. The company will usually not return the favour, you rarely get properly rewarded for crazy hours, yet it has a major impact on your health (both mental and physical) in the long run. Not worth it. > It was not a 9 to 5 company.…

... yet Tesla pushed the entire world to electrify transport. I remember years ago reading article after article and forum post after forum post about how once we finally deplete oil transportation will revert to the 19th century. I don't read that anymore. I have little doubt that without Tesla you wouldn't see a dozen other EVs on the market. You might have one or two crappy "compliance cars," but nobody else would…

Here's a thing I've noticed about achievement, in sports and e-sports more so than in business, but I believe the same applies.

What separates the high achievers, apart from any basic talent and training, is a personality that doesn't experience the relevant kind of pain or discomfort that would discourage them from the task.

For a lot of sports, that means overcompetitive asshole. For a lot of businesses, the same. That personality gets a lot of leeway to optimize towards linear goals. But then you go looking at certain niches and there is nuance. Sometimes it's endurance - masochism. Someone who runs ultramarathons, or repeatedly starts over a speedrun of a classic video game. Sometimes it's a poker player or day trader who can't feel the weight of moving around big stakes. There are many roles where the successful personality isn't the competitive narcissist. But in the specific case of small companies that get very big very quickly, they are prolific.

And that's a point which helps me personally, since I know some things about my comfort zone by now and where the standard advice is going to fail. Only some people are numbed enough to simply "hustle" and succeed. For the rest it's more like a quest to find the right kinds of challenges, the ones that they are most likely to engage with at a high level. When they can do that, people call them a genius. But from their own perspective, it's ordinary, or only somewhat more painful than doing nothing. And this quality of personality matching a high level skillset runs throughout our fictional characters, despite Western society nominally engaging with beliefs of anyone being equally able to learn to do anything. I think we know this and turn our back on it because it uproots several of our major founding myths about society and its potential and whom we should support and how.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I run a business and I can't afford you, then I have to continue employing you to the detriment of the rest of the business? I frequently hear this being trotted out as the reason why at-will employment is a good thing. This is, however, not the reality. You can fire employees for many reasons: Poor performance, breaking the rules, and - yes - lack of money. What you cannot do is fire people on the spot for any ra…

I'm trying to understand how in this and my other comment I am failing to communicate as you seem to be reading the exact opposite of what I'm saying. First, in an at-will state in the US, except for those cases relating to protected classes, you can indeed legally let any employee go for any random reason you desire. Any "complications" involved have been added by your company, in an attempt to protect them from emp…

I live in a country that does not have at-will employment. I can quit at any time with one months notice (or, at the employers discretion, less). A person can be fired for the reasons mdekkers mentioned (bad behaviour, bad performance, lack of money) but there is a procedure to go through (eg for bad performance, you must give warnings first). It works well for employees, who don’t have to worry about the possibility of an asshole manager going on a firing rampage (as the article states happens in Tesla) and it works well for employers because they can fire when necessary, they just cannot legally abuse it.

> I see no reason an employer shouldn’t have the same freedom

Because its not an equal relationship. Unless the company is very, very small or badly managed, losing an employee or two is much less of a deal for employers than losing their jobs is for the average employee. If the employer really wants rid of the employee for a legitimate reason, they can do so, they just have to jump through a few hoops. If they want to get rid of the person just because, then no, they can’t do that and in my opinion shouldn’t be allowed to either. It encourages an abusive or unfair work environment (work longer/harder/more dangerously or I’ll fire you! for example).

For the average person, losing their job is devistating. For the average company, losing an employee barely registers. Remember, that most employees don’t have the same flexibility and job availability that most of us on HN do, yet the laws still apply the same.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#169
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... yet Tesla pushed the entire world to electrify transport. I remember years ago reading article after article and forum post after forum post about how once we finally deplete oil transportation will revert to the 19th century. I don't read that anymore. I have little doubt that without Tesla you wouldn't see a dozen other EVs on the market. You might have one or two crappy "compliance cars," but nobody else would…

Here's a thing I've noticed about achievement, in sports and e-sports more so than in business, but I believe the same applies. What separates the high achievers, apart from any basic talent and training, is a personality that doesn't experience the relevant kind of pain or discomfort that would discourage them from the task. For a lot of sports, that means overcompetitive asshole. For a lot of businesses, the same.…

Have you seen the movie Free Solo? Some interesting coverage of this topic in it.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#170
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a thing I've noticed about achievement, in sports and e-sports more so than in business, but I believe the same applies. What separates the high achievers, apart from any basic talent and training, is a personality that doesn't experience the relevant kind of pain or discomfort that would discourage them from the task. For a lot of sports, that means overcompetitive asshole. For a lot of businesses, the same.…

Have you seen the movie Free Solo? Some interesting coverage of this topic in it.

Although I haven't seen the movie, other coverage of Alex Honnold has definitely got my mind going on this topic. He's an excellent example of a personality eminently suited to the task.
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